Imagine Nation Forums

Yankovic Wrote:With a few exceptions every staffmember also has a player. So they know whats going on

This is why naked ladies always work. No one needs to know anything but what boobies are. ;]

I see what Scare is saying and his friends (which it's not uncommon that they all say the same thing), and I think they know what is going on Scare. I think it's going to require more than the same people always making the same objections, suggestions, or impressions. OF course, there is a way to present it so it doesn't come off as so resentful or insulting.

I don't think you truly meant it that way, considering you're working to better something how you see fit.

I believe if more people besides the same people always saying the same thing voiced their opinion- perhaps these people whom you speak of that would play if things were different? They CAN register and speak constructively to help with a progressive movement.

Change the strategy of your presentation- that can usually make or break an argument.

I was thinking that an adjustment to starting skills might work well.

Magery: 85 (enough to cast FS most of the time)
Tactics: 80 (you can hit 100-105 with a good weapon)
Archery/Swords: 80 (still requires a day or two to spar to GM)
Fencing/Maces/Wrestling: 70 (who uses these anyway?)
Parrying: 80
Eval Int: 65 (easily macro'd)
Anatomy: 65 (easily macro'd)
Healing: 80 (decent chance to suceed, easily macro'd)
Resisting Spells: 80 (relatively easy to macro)

You could also add some basic hunting skills so that people can get started with some very basic hunting sooner:

Hiding: 70 (easy to macro)
Stealth: 65 (easy to macro)
Provocation: 55 (hard to macro, but very valuable)
Musicianship: 50 (ridiculously easy to macro)
Meditation: 65 (easy to macro)

With those skills you're good to go for some basic PVP and it would probably shave off a total of about 4-5 days of macro time. I think that Shade said it takes ~9 days to macro a PVP character, but I assume that he meant with supplies. You need lots of reagents, bandages and broken weapons to GM your PVP/PVM skills and without basic hunting skills, it takes a while to get them.

I don't think that there should be bonuses to craft skills at all, from skill-stone or otherwise. I think that you should have to GM it from vendor-trained values or from whatever you start with. I think that a shard that is too crafter heaver has an inherently poor economy since trading is mostly unnecessary. Hard-to-gain craft skills ensure that the people who put in the time and money to raise those skills see a benefit from it.

Crafters would actually benefit from the increased skills since more people would be hunting, gathering, and PVPing and thus buying supplies from the people who can make them.

Finally, the thing about UO that has always made me confused is how horribly weak you are when you start. My very first day of OSI UO back in 97/98, I logged in, figured out war mode, and attacked a cat in town. It killed me. You're telling me a 150lb human being gets killed by a 10lb cat in a fight? I think that giving these boosts should bring people more in-line with an actual person who would start out adventuring. On a related note, I talked to a new player today as he was in the newbie-dungeon in a neck-and-neck battle with a mongbat. I thought it was a bit silly that it should be so difficult for a new player to kill a low-level monster.

On the other hand, you don't want to just hand out full skills to everyone who joins because some of the players that are brought in that way are people who don't have any of the attachment to their character since they didn't have to spend time building it. I think that some basic skill boosts, nothing too powerful, will be an acceptable compromise between the "free PVP skills" and the "macro for everything" extremes.

Those are just my thoughts. Hopefully other people have more input that is based on logic rather than emotion. Thanks for reading.

MadMan Wrote:It takes a week to make a pvper? lol maybe a week with all the resources but if ur just starting you have NOTHING.. itl take u 3weeks.

I have been macroing for fun this night. I was so smart not to pick magic resist in the skillstone. and completely agree that if you don't have resources it will take weeks to get a full pvp char.

However, there are three pvp skills you need resources for: Magery, Resisting spells and healing. If you pick those three skills on the stone. I think it wouldn't cost you more than 1000 gold to gm all other pvp skills. Maybe you need some for meditation but else only anatomy, evaluating intelligence and tactics + combat skill remains. For the last two you need a nice friend you can macro on for a night. And anatomy and evaluating intelligence are a joke.

But yes, if you dont pick magery, healing and resisting spells as skills from the skillstone. You need lots of gold.

As far as resisting spells go you don't need much gold at all if you just have good healing.
Cast firefield + run through field and you will gain resisting spells like crazy, then heal. You will gain both magery and healing with this as well.

That's why I have two separate characters. One for crafts the other for PVP. My craft characters never even have hiding. Just focus on PVP or crafting. Not all at once.

Taran Wrote:As far as resisting spells go you don't need much gold at all if you just have good healing.
Cast firefield + run through field and you will gain resisting spells like crazy, then heal. You will gain both magery and healing with this as well.

That's exactly what I am doing

Yankovic Wrote:

MadMan Wrote:It takes a week to make a pvper? lol maybe a week with all the resources but if ur just starting you have NOTHING.. itl take u 3weeks.

I have been macroing for fun this night. I was so smart not to pick magic resist in the skillstone. and completely agree that if you don't have resources it will take weeks to get a full pvp char.

That's a very good point that to be honest I forgot about... If I were to start macroing a brand new character tomorrow it would probably take ME 9-10 days+ and I have all the supplies I need. Actually I probably don't have enough MA scrolls (2k stockpile right now) or reagents stocked up to cast firefield a few hundred or thousand times to GM magery/resisting spells...

The other factor is time... Like a few people have mentioned in this thread and other threads, people simply don't have the same amount of time to put towards UO anymore yet we demand it of them...


Eru, I think your skill package is too much. As someone said in another thread, if you're given too many skills you don't feel an attachment to your player or like you earned them.

Going from no skill package to what you suggested is a huge leap and I don't think we need to offer that much. Personally, I think 75-85 Magery, 75-85 Meditation, 75-85 Resisting Spells, and 1 combat is more then enough. Healing is very easy to do, you just need 1 xuo fs and 100 aids. Since you don't lose aids when healing you can just keep re-using the same ones. Anatomy and Evaluating Intelligence are also very easy. Even a new player should be able to figure out a macro to do these.

The reason I say to give Magery, Meditation, Resisting Spells is because these take the most resources (which new players obviously don't have much of), and they are the most crucial and possibly longest.

I don't think any hunting skills should be included because that's really giving people a huge head start on hunting when they should have to work for it at least some what considering this is one of the main ways to make money... And as I said before, you can still hunt without skills like provocation, etc but it will be a bit more of a challenge.

Eighty Swords Wrote:That's a very good point that to be honest I forgot about... If I were to start macroing a brand new character tomorrow it would probably take ME 9-10 days+ and I have all the supplies I need. Actually I probably don't have enough MA scrolls (2k stockpile right now) or reagents stocked up to cast firefield a few hundred or thousand times to GM magery/resisting spells...

The other factor is time... Like a few people have mentioned in this thread and other threads, people simply don't have the same amount of time to put towards UO anymore yet we demand it of them...


Eru, I think your skill package is too much. As someone said in another thread, if you're given too many skills you don't feel an attachment to your player or like you earned them.

Going from no skill package to what you suggested is a huge leap and I don't think we need to offer that much. Personally, I think 75-85 Magery, 75-85 Meditation, 75-85 Resisting Spells, and 1 combat is more then enough. Healing is very easy to do, you just need 1 xuo fs and 100 aids. Since you don't lose aids when healing you can just keep re-using the same ones. Anatomy and Evaluating Intelligence are also very easy. Even a new player should be able to figure out a macro to do these.

The reason I say to give Magery, Meditation, Resisting Spells is because these take the most resources (which new players obviously don't have much of), and they are the most crucial and possibly longest.

I don't think any hunting skills should be included because that's really giving people a huge head start on hunting when they should have to work for it at least some what considering this is one of the main ways to make money... And as I said before, you can still hunt without skills like provocation, etc but it will be a bit more of a challenge.

You should have read the rest of my post...

When you create a character. You can choose 3 skills from the skillstone.
If you pick magery, resisting spells and healing or meditation. You don't need much resources because those are the only pvp skills you need resources for.

Now I think of this, I actually might create a second char for fun to see how long it would take when i have those skills. I think its even possible to do within a week

Eighty Swords Wrote:That's a very good point that to be honest I forgot about... If I were to start macroing a brand new character tomorrow it would probably take ME 9-10 days+ and I have all the supplies I need. Actually I probably don't have enough MA scrolls (2k stockpile right now) or reagents stocked up to cast firefield a few hundred or thousand times to GM magery/resisting spells...

The other factor is time... Like a few people have mentioned in this thread and other threads, people simply don't have the same amount of time to put towards UO anymore yet we demand it of them...


Eru, I think your skill package is too much. As someone said in another thread, if you're given too many skills you don't feel an attachment to your player or like you earned them.

Going from no skill package to what you suggested is a huge leap and I don't think we need to offer that much. Personally, I think 75-85 Magery, 75-85 Meditation, 75-85 Resisting Spells, and 1 combat is more then enough. Healing is very easy to do, you just need 1 xuo fs and 100 aids. Since you don't lose aids when healing you can just keep re-using the same ones. Anatomy and Evaluating Intelligence are also very easy. Even a new player should be able to figure out a macro to do these.

The reason I say to give Magery, Meditation, Resisting Spells is because these take the most resources (which new players obviously don't have much of), and they are the most crucial and possibly longest.

I don't think any hunting skills should be included because that's really giving people a huge head start on hunting when they should have to work for it at least some what considering this is one of the main ways to make money... And as I said before, you can still hunt without skills like provocation, etc but it will be a bit more of a challenge.

Eru also said go by logic rather than emotion and to me this is emotion. "No its too much blah" Alright sure but I can still see people not macroing the skills. And its not pvp skills yeah we use it to pvp but those exact skills are the only ones needed to hunt. Get some bs and ev scrolls and ur set

Yankovic Wrote:You should have read the rest of my post...

When you create a character. You can choose 3 skills from the skillstone.
If you pick magery, resisting spells and healing or meditation. You don't need much resources because those are the only pvp skills you need resources for.

Now I think of this, I actually might create a second char for fun to see how long it would take when i have those skills. I think its even possible to do within a week

lol i love how eighty doesn't read posts and then he becomes a hypocrite and tells me to read his essays :badgrin:

Yankovic Wrote:You should have read the rest of my post...

When you create a character. You can choose 3 skills from the skillstone.
If you pick magery, resisting spells and healing or meditation. You don't need much resources because those are the only pvp skills you need resources for.

I did read your post yank, the whole thing I might add. What my post came down to is that I don't think when you take the skills I mentioned from the skill stone that you get them at 100. If you noticed I also suggested meditation over healing since healing doesn't take huge amounts of resources. Then again meditation can be done while you do magery and resisting spells, and after that if you aren't GM mediation you can use a nos fs scroll to finish it off so either way it won't make a big difference between those two. My suggestion did add one GM combat though and after a microscopic comparison between what we currently have (what you followed), eru's suggestion and my suggestion, that's the difference maker.

And of course just because one of us suggested something doesn't mean it will happen. The staff can still discuss it and maybe they will find my suggestion or what we currently offer isn't enough and what Eru said is too much and they will agree on a middle ground.

MadMan Wrote:Eru also said go by logic rather than emotion and to me this is emotion. "No its too much blah" Alright sure but I can still see people not macroing the skills. And its not pvp skills yeah we use it to pvp but those exact skills are the only ones needed to hunt. Get some bs and ev scrolls and ur set

It's not from emotion what I posted, it's my opinion that going from what we currently offer (3 skills partway gmed) to 9-14 skills partway gmed is a huge leap. And yes, I understand that there are other skills that are useful for hunting such as peacemaking, provocation, discordance and that these all require musicianship, but the point I'm trying to make and that somehow everyone keeps missing is that these skills (peacemaking, provocation, discordance and musicianship) aren't 100% necessary for pvm whereas healing, meditation, magery, resisting spells are 100% necessary for both pvp and pvm. That's what I was getting at. Eru called these skills basic hunting skills, but they're not basic at all considering you can get by without them. Basic is the bare minimum needed to do something; healing, magery, meditation and resisting spells.

smoke Wrote:lol i love how eighty doesn't read posts and then he becomes a hypocrite and tells me to read his essays :badgrin:

smoke there's a difference between NOT READING something or MISSING 1 line or sentence of a post, or reading it wrong at first. In any case, I just didn't entirely agree with what Yank said and therefore I posted my opinion/suggestion. You didn't see me say "i'm not reading that <insert expletive here if desired>" so don't call me a hypocrite. Once again you are talking about something that you have no idea about...

However thank YOU for your contribution and most relevant post pertaining to the discussion at hand.

Eighty Swords;53037
smoke there's a difference between NOT READING something or MISSING 1 line or sentence of a post, or reading it wrong at first. In any case, I just didn't entirely agree with what Yank said and therefore I posted my opinion/suggestion. You didn't see me say [I Wrote:"i'm not reading that <insert expletive here if desired>"[/I] so don't call me a hypocrite. Once again you are talking about something that you have no idea about...

However thank YOU for your contribution and most relevant post pertaining to the discussion at hand.

yes because my posts are irelevant (i can sense the sarcasm through the internet) nope no idea what im talking about what so ever =]