[imported_Pande]

i agree drama, xuoers will benefit more if this were to go through, but inr players would also get a small benefit.

however there are some people among us who are incapable of seeing they also benefit. they only see that someone else gets a better deal

[imported_Magus]

I can't wait until the server opens! Woohoo

[imported_Dramatic]

i agree drama, xuoers will benefit more if this were to go through, but inr players would also get a small benefit.

however there are some people among us who are incapable of seeing they also benefit. they only see that someone else gets a better deal

thats what im talking about man , i mean , the purpose of all this is to have fun so if someone gets more benefit , whats the matter? remember we are merging two different communities into a single one so that means one of them will somehow get more benefit of the merge.For the admins and Developers, i think this is the time to CONSIDER this idea, since it would bring lots of players back for sure and a good start would result in a good playerbase in the future.Full skill transfers is the key to make this succeed

[imported_Magus]

lol, nice editing Taran

[imported_Pande]

INers would get something in exchange,something they would aprecciate from IN

One thing i would appreciate, and would accept as exchange, is to remove the pits

I have to turn this suggestion down Lederoil because skills are something that can be trained. If you don't get full transfers at the start, you will have the chance to be able to GM those skills again. But if pits is removed to compensate the fact that xuo players might profit more from Drama's suggestion then inr players, then there is no way that pits could be re-implemented at a later point in time.

This suggestion was also brought forth in an attempt to recover some of our "lost playerbase". But if we go through with removing pits, that would only cause us to lose more players, so these two acts would cancel each other out.

I am open to other suggestions, if a good one is mentioned, then there is the possibility that it is accepted.

One I put forth is that xuo players get a smaller gold transfer then is currently planned. What i expect most xuo players to do with their transferred gold is to train their skills that are no longer gmed, or to stock up on ressources.

So if xuo players are given their full transfers, then they wouldn't need that transfered gold to train their no longer gmed skills.

[imported_Cole]

im not trying to start a fight, but this is another viewpoint...

nobody forced you to play on the server you did. if you felt, or feel, cheated about the difficult, or easy, skill gain then you could of quit the server you played on. or you could of tried convincing the admins to make it easier skill gain. because you were willing to put up with a difficult situation does not mean that others must "suffer" as a result.

like i said, i wasn't trying to start anything with that, so if you feel insulted, then don't say anything.

drama, when i initally read your post, it was my understanding that everyone would get full skill transfers and that would even things out. afterall, both inr players and xuo players would keep all their skills. its not like only xuo players would benefit.

but now i see you are suggesting that to compensate the inr players for giving xuo players full transfers, that they should receive an item of some kind. unfortunately this would only create more work for the devs instead of simply having to transfer the skills.

Pande, your argument doesn't make any sense at all. Firstly, its insulting if for no other reason because you said, "i wasn't trying to start anything with that, so if you feel insulted, then don't say anything." Are you saying your argument is immune to criticism, just because you prefaced it with a disclaimer? Many people have been using reasoning in their arguments, but completely forgetting about logic.

You suggest that INR players are at fault for playing on a shard with difficult skill gain (which debatably is related in part to a less bloated economy - a common feature developers try to avoid).

Maybe you forget that it was a condition of the merge (similar to XUO's demanding pits) that skill and items transfers be balanced. There was good reason for this, which you are now throwing out the window for the sake of convenience. The IN community has learned first hand that if skill gain is too easy on a shard with no skill cap, people can too quickly become self-sufficient and the economy (a central feature of UO - a feature that shouldn't readily be omitted) can go to crap.

Effectiveness of a scaled skill transfer aside, you must remember that IN:R and XUO staff agreed to merge their two different systems in a way that both parties found suitable. To say something like "nobody forced you to play on the server you did. if you felt, or feel, cheated about the difficult, or easy, skill gain then you could of quit the server you played on....because you were willing to put up with a difficult situation does not mean that others must "suffer" as a result." completely nullifies the initial agreement between INR and XUO. With that type of reasoning, you could just as easily and readily suggest discontinuing any support of role playing, not using INR deco, or doing away with any of INR's other requests/demands in the merge. Your suggestion does inherently upset INR players, which is approximately 50% of your player base now, so if you care to make an argument for any particular point, please be more considerate.

[imported_Pande]

The reason I said "nobody forced you to play on the server you did. if you felt, or feel, cheated about the difficult, or easy, skill gain then you could of quit the server you played on....because you were willing to put up with a difficult situation does not mean that others must "suffer" as a result." is because the skillgain/transfer issue seems to have come up as an issue. If someone on XUO didn't like something, they would of tried to get it changed or they went to a new shard. All I was saying is that because INR players were ok with the difficult skillgain, does not mean that the XUO players should now have a set back.

I am fully aware that the INR and XUO staff came to an agreement over the skill transfers, along with many other issues, seeing as how I was a part of it from the beginnning.

If RP or the INR deco caused an issue with XUO players, which it doesn't seem to be doing and in fact it seem many XUO players like the change, then they would say something and ask for change, to which there would be a responce from the INR side.

The reason I said "i wasn't trying to start anything with that, so if you feel insulted, then don't say anything." was because I didn't want to start a flame war, which is normally the outcome when people read something they don't like.

The economy maintained some level of balance on XUO due to the lazyness or the dislike of training skills (as easy as they may have been compared to INR) or because they didn't give a shit about crafting and just wanted to pvp so when they needed a craftable, they bought it.

[imported_Cole]

The reason I said "nobody forced you to play on the server you did. if you felt, or feel, cheated about the difficult, or easy, skill gain then you could of quit the server you played on....because you were willing to put up with a difficult situation does not mean that others must "suffer" as a result." is because the skillgain/transfer issue seems to have come up as an issue. If someone on XUO didn't like something, they would of tried to get it changed or they went to a new shard. All I was saying is that because INR players were ok with the difficult skillgain, does not mean that the XUO players should now have a set back.

Again, by that reasoning i could say: "Just because XUO players were fine with pits doesn't mean they have to be a part of INX." Many INR players consider moderate to semi-difficult skill gain an intelligent feature, not a insignificant aside. Some people did argue to have easier skill gain, and it was made easier from the original hellish rates it had at first, but in general our community agreed on close to what it was for a reason. Also, what XUO player's are receiving can't really contextually be considered as a "set back" because the goal is to have an accurate representation of the amount of time players spent developing their character in the different fields (with different gain rates).

If RP or the INR deco caused an issue with XUO players, which it doesn't seem to be doing and in fact it seem many XUO players like the change, then they would say something and ask for change, to which there would be a responce from the INR side.

I haven't really seen anyone complaining about the skill transfers actually, but maybe i haven't been paying such close attention to that. I suppose when it comes down to it i consider this a silly thing to consider ignoring. It seems to me to be an essential condition of the merge, similar to how i imagine XUO players feeling about pits.

The reason I said "i wasn't trying to start anything with that, so if you feel insulted, then don't say anything." was because I didn't want to start a flame war, which is normally the outcome when people read something they don't like.

I interpreted the way you phrased it to indicate that you would prefer what you had to say to be immune to criticism. Glad you specified now.

The economy maintained some level of balance on XUO due to the lazyness or the dislike of training skills (as easy as they may have been compared to INR) or because they didn't give a shit about crafting and just wanted to pvp so when they needed a craftable, they bought it.

I'll take your word for it, but i think you can count on those dynamics being different on INX due to a large influx (proportionately) of players with different play styles.

[imported_Pande]

Also, what XUO player's are receiving can't really contextually be considered as a "set back" because the goal is to have an accurate representation of the amount of time players spent developing their character in the different fields (with different gain rates).

very true, but neither you nor I can say that if there was a harder skill gain on XUO, that the XUO players would of put in the same time they did with these skill gains. Yes, some players might not of bothered at all, but there would still be those who would put in the time and effort to GM their skills.

I think it would be best to measure time spent in proportion to the time required to GM a skill based on your respective shard.

I haven't really seen anyone complaining about the skill transfers actually

True, but now that it's brought up, and in an intelligible way, we may as well discuss it and search for a fix if it poses a problem among enough players.

[imported_Cole]

very true, but neither you nor I can say that if there was a harder skill gain on XUO, that the XUO players would of put in the same time they did with these skill gains. Yes, some players might not of bothered at all, but there would still be those who would put in the time and effort to GM their skills.

I think it would be best to measure time spent in proportion to the time required to GM a skill based on your respective shard.

That doesn't make so much sense to me...if you consider how much time XUO players may have spent developing skills if skill gain was harder, you would still have to imagine how much time INR players also spent developing skills if skill gain was harder there. It doesn't matter that INR's was harder than XUO's, this is a relative situation that needs to be dealt with equally on both sides.

Edit: I like that you like the color green (your sig). It seems we agree on something. Just had to say something blatantly nice after all this debate.

[imported_Pande]

That first part sounded a little confusing, but you are absolutely correct Cole, "this is a relative situation that needs to be dealt with equally on both sides.".

What Drama suggested would not be an equal outcome considering that what really happened is that INR players spent more time training skills.

However, there could be some form of compensation if a decent one was suggested that wouldn't take more time for the dev's. Afterall, this suggestion was to save the dev's time, if it would actually save them any, and to possibly re-attract some players.

I'm glad that you're glad that I like green

I'm also glad that you like horses.

[imported_Cole]

mmm...emerald mustang...

...maybe a developer (who is working on this or who has looked at this) can comment on whether or not this is really a tough or time consuming issue. From what i can tell it's not going to be easy, but i still think its very important and worthwhile.