[imported_Rabbi Samild]

Also, how is making AFK resource gathering different from just making skills easier? They essentially get you to the same place. Oh it's hard to get 250,000 ingots to GM smithing, so instead of making it fewer ingots, lets just make it much easier to get the resources. Instead of going from 250,000 to 200,000 you're going from 0 to 250,000 to bridge the gap. Awful idea, should never happen.

[maka]

Oh and what i hear all the time from the staff on this forum, is that because we here are discussing about the skillgain the players will leafe becouse they see it here on the forum. well theres no such thing as that. you dont leaf a soccer club becouse the trainer has some discussion with a teammate, about how the game should be played. or is it?

How about if these football players we are talking about KEEP yelling that there isn't enough practice opportunities, say that players are leaving cause of that, yell that the trainers never listen and that there must be some corrupted trainers cause someone has has 80k football scrolls in their bank? Do you think that will drive football players away, cause that is exactly what this topic is. I think that you are setting yourself up for a lonely ass football club.

Discussing things almost never drives players away, but really, this last week has been filled with whine. It's not one topic on the same subject, its 3, and then 3 more on a similar subject. That does NOT look good.

The quantity of topics does how ever say something, and that is that something needs to be done somewhat urgent. I do not believe you guys are all wrong, just that you try to bring change forth in a really damaging way.

Taran has spoken on the skill gain and said that it would stay the same. He has also said that he will look into the lacking staff activity. There you got two things answered.

If you want to bring something creative to the table, I suggest we stop talking about the above mentioned problems, and focus on what we can do to increase the player count. There has been some of this already, all I'm saying is focus on the new stuff to bring that forward, not the stuff Taran is already working on.

[imported_p!nk dr@g0n]

If 100 players mine AFK, all getting 2,500 ingots per hour, we're introducing 250,000 ingots to the shard PER HOUR.

Lol. First of all, the shard doesn't even peak 100 players lol. Second of all, like 10 people on the shard would like to mine. Third of all, you have like TOPS 2-3 players that have macros that allows them to mine afk.
I actually don't see the difference between mining afk and making scrolls/pots/black widows/daggers afk... In the end it's all about making money afk one way or another, and to be honest mining probably isn't the most profitable.

[imported_p!nk dr@g0n]

The quantity of topics does how ever say something, and that is that something needs to be done somewhat urgent. I do not believe you guys are all wrong, just that you try to bring change forth in a really damaging way.

Taran has spoken on the skill gain and said that it would stay the same. He has also said that he will look into the lacking staff activity. There you got two things answered.

FINALLY you've realized that there's a reason for all of these threads and not just calling it all whine... And also, we're not happy with the answer "nothing will be done" lol... The reason we whine is that we want something done, right? How does then "we won't change it" help? It makes it worse if anything... And noone has asked for crafting skills to get any easier, I don't understand why half of the posters here are defending craft skills... What you guys don't understand is that it takes way too long time to get started on here, a new character should get some skills GM'd automatically, such as Magery... It costs like 50k worth of resources to GM it even from 90 and EVERY player on the shard needs it. And try making 50k from scratch without magery... It's not easy.

[maka]

I'm not sure why you think I've "FINALLY" realized this, I've been reading every whine topic I've seen, and yes, this is actually still whine to me. Only thing I said was that the whine does mean something, and I think Taran agrees cause he said he would look into it, like 150 posts back. Problems are taken seriously, but so are the manner in which they are presented.

It is understandable that the "skill gain wont change" might aggravate people even more, but fact is, it is Tarans honest opinion that skill gain is fine. People screaming in a childish manner will not change his opinion about that. If that is cause we are veterans that knows the how-tos, while most players starting are not (really?), then we do have a slight problem we need to fix somehow.

Now on the things you actually said. I haven't seen a lot of people say that skill gain needs to be changed, I've seen some, but far from the majority. What I have seen though is people asking to make the server an easier place to start out on, and that to me, doesn't have a lot to do with skill gain. You can make the place a lot easier, but still having the skill gain somewhat hard, if you provide a means to train those skills.

That is the reason to why I said "stop talking about skill gains, it wont change". Because if we stop talking about that, we might actually talk about something that will increase our player count without changing something the administration/staff actually think is fine.

Talk about making more newbie hunting spots with adequate gold/reagents drop for magery training. Talk about adding more information to where to hunt, and force-feed this information to new people. Talk about anything in any way you want, as long as it doesn't damage the client count like this can.

[imported_Rabbi Samild]

Lol. First of all, the shard doesn't even peak 100 players lol. Second of all, like 10 people on the shard would like to mine. Third of all, you have like TOPS 2-3 players that have macros that allows them to mine afk.
I actually don't see the difference between mining afk and making scrolls/pots/black widows/daggers afk... In the end it's all about making money afk one way or another, and to be honest mining probably isn't the most profitable.

Making things afk from resources you have already gotten is one thing. GETTING resources WITHOUT EFFORT is another. They're two, very distinct topics. Nobody makes black widows afk lol. Daggers/pots/scrolls for training purposes and selling are made from previous earned resources.

Do people not understand that if you open the flood gates that no skill will be worth training, because everyone will be 49x? Do you honestly not see how that would change things?

I don't understand where the disconnect is in people's reasoning, but it doesn't make sense to allow AFK resourcing. May as well just .set all skills to GM upon creation of new character.

[imported_Camaron]

I dont agree with you about the skillgain maka. i saw a lot of people complaining about skillgain the problem is that most of the players dont read forums and dont say their opinion. Look the spanish forum all of them dissagree with skillgain lot of the people who quit complained about skillgain. Im not saying all but for example if the half of the server want skillgain easy and the half want it hard something should be done because u only have the half of the server happy. If u had 300 playerbase and 50 complain about skillgain maybe its not a problem to not hear them but when we are talking about a LOT of players u should look about it.

If i know a way to bring players that is not making it easier to them to get some items ill say it but honestly i dont see what it can be done maybe because i dont know how to run a server as a gm.making more newbie hunting spots with adequate gold/reagents drop for magery training maybe is a good suggestion but if u do it u must do it now and dont wait till the server have 2 playerbase.
I know it wont change but well my skills are already trained so i dont care. I only want to bring more people to the server so i dont log on and have nothing to do to have fun.

Notice that these game doesnt have new players because its not a new game (so only people who know it from the pass play) and if u loose players maybe they wont look more to the server.

[Eighty Swords]

-Do you want skillgain made easier? Yes or no?

Yes

-If you want skillgain made easier do you want ALL SKILLS to be made easier, or ONLY THE PVP SKILLS like healing, magery, etc?
All skills but crafts should be harder than pvp skills

I disagree with you about this. I think it would be ok to make the PvP skills easier, but the craft skills should stay as they are. If you want to be able to make everything for yourself and not have to trade with other players then you should have to work for this.

Do you think we need changes to hunting? Yes or no?
Yes

If you think we need changes to hunting what kind of changes do you suggest?
Increase the loot (more money and maybe some more jewelery)

I think the hunting could be made a bit easier too so you don't always have to be in pairs and there should be some more medium level spawns added so people can get better at hunting on their own and can then fight the harder monsters.

4º In all servers you obtain money while macroing for example tailoring. You dont lose money. Of course the money you get is not high enough, but is just something that makes up your economy.

There are ways to make money by training skills, most of the time you just need to collect the supplies yourself instead of buying them from other players or NPC's. Example: I collected cotton bales myself to make into cloth to train tailoring, and I made over 150k by making bandannas and selling them to NPC's. I even did this again on a second character (mainly so I could get another reward dye tub) and I made another 150k by collecting the cloth myself.

If you do the same for carpentry, blacksmithy, and other skills you can also make a profit. It all depends how fast you want to train a skill and how much work you want to put into it.

There has to be something called motivation to new players. You people dont understand that this kind of pvp requires much money which newb players will need quite a lot of time to get.
This pvm requires much money to pvm nicely using ev scrolls for example.

Do you really think that presenting 3 skills is a nice way to get players?
I prefer to have a easy skill gain than receive 3 skills to my choice near 100.
Almost this is my case. Probably other person would prefer 3 skills and hard skill gain etc..

Regards

For motivation I think there are enough things to make players want to play here. The RP possibilities, the wide range of events, the unique pvp style, a unique type of monsters, all the special quests we have, etc. If all a shard has to offer is the easiest skillgain in the world, it might have 200 players tomorrow but the day after that it will have 0 because everyone will see there's nothing to do.

3 skills is better then no skills and the skillgain staying as it was

PS:// on a side note, Like Kitiara said, people need help when their new... we need some sort of popup, or book, or something. to give a quick intro to people who JUST login... telling them quickly where to hunt, main towns, which three skills to choose if their PVMERS or PVPERs, stuff like that... new commers seem really lost and dont know how to get started.

I think this is a great idea, maybe some players can work together to save the staff the time of doing this and then email it to Taran... The reason I say maybe some players could do this is because if a staff were to do this instead of hosting people would complain, so leave the staff to host and do this while you (not you specifically Silverwolf, just you as in players) let a macro run! The only problem I see with this however is that players will feel overwhelmed by all this information being put infront of them the first minute they log in. As it is the skill gump is the first popup you see. Maybe this can be added in the form of an item in your pack to double click?

Lol. First of all, the shard doesn't even peak 100 players lol. Second of all, like 10 people on the shard would like to mine. Third of all, you have like TOPS 2-3 players that have macros that allows them to mine afk.
I actually don't see the difference between mining afk and making scrolls/pots/black widows/daggers afk... In the end it's all about making money afk one way or another, and to be honest mining probably isn't the most profitable.

I think the difference is that when you make scrolls and pots AFK you've already invested the time collecting the resources and now you're simply using them. In essence, the way it is now you're only AFK 50% of the time through the whole process of collecting resources and making an item. Allowing AFK resource gathering would make you AFK 99% of the time, with the other 1% of the time being the time you spend logging on, starting the macro, then logging of.

People have complained that the players are AFK too much, well this won't exactly help with the AFK rate.

How about if these football players we are talking about KEEP yelling that there isn't enough practice opportunities, say that players are leaving cause of that, yell that the trainers never listen and that there must be some corrupted trainers cause someone has has 80k football scrolls in their bank? Do you think that will drive football players away, cause that is exactly what this topic is. I think that you are setting yourself up for a lonely ass football club.

Football scrolls? Can I get some of these? A giant black and white ball would fall on the person I cast it on It could even be scripted in a way where there's a 1% chance of getting a different colored ball to drop on the person so it's like you cast a puma football lol




[SIZE="5"]Now to answer the stupid off topic people...[/SIZE]

honestly why do you always suck up to the staff members and say how time consuming it is, you think us players don't consume time playing here? stop licking their *******s clean and just shut up with your experience, you're experience obviously wasn't too good if you were let go.

I never said players don't invest time here. I said that lots of players complain they can't spend as much time playing as they did 5-10 years ago because they have lives now but they expect staff to spend even more time playing then them. You would have understood this is what I said if you spent more time on school instead of playing UO all the time.

Why do I take the staff's side? Because so many people are criticizing them and so few people are thanking them that I'm sure they appreciate seeing someone on their side and knowing their efforts don't go unthanked. Furthermore, because I know how annoying it is to deal with stupid sons of b*tches like you who complain about every little thing from the color of the equipment in a tour to the staff not being on 24 hours a day.

As for my experience about being staff, I'm sure even Taran and maka will say that asides from arguing with people as much as I did I was a great staff member. I hosted lots of tours, I answered pages all the time, I was fair, I punished people for being abusive towards others, I treated my friends and people I didn't know the exact same way, I never cheated even 1gp for myself or anyone else, I kept the French community here for a long time by being their link to the shard, I helped balance a lot of things, found tons of bugs, designed different areas, submitted a lot of information to Taran to post on the website, and more. Now before you put words in my mouth I'm not saying some players don't help find bugs and balance things, I'm just saying that I did a lot of it too and it just went unnoticed by some because they didn't see it happening.

I've explained before that I'm no longer staff because I yelled on the forums with my mortal account because a staff member killed me after I was talking to another staff member. Taran felt my doing things like that and always arguing with players gave the shard a bad image, which he didn't want to continue happening. Now I'm sure you're going to say something like 'that's not what I was told you were fired for'. Yea like you would even know, cause you're best friends with Taran and you two tell each other all your little secrets. Until you say this top secret thing you were told about why I was fired, you're full of shit yet again.

Not to mention taran said he was going to make a rule that when staff was inactive for more than 2 weeks he would fire them and replace them, i've seen it happen and promoe and raigain that we now have I think it's time for another 2 to get let go for not logging on.

Personally, I don't remember hearing that but who knows...

To be honest the only recent GMs that have been online were ragain promoe muto and tiesto and tiesto hosts like once every week but at least he does host

That's funny, because I don't see muto or tiesto often, normally I see Hate saying to go gank, or hosting tours, or his PvP school (like he did yesterday). I think Hate has answered my last 4-5 pages and before him it was almost always Shade. But you know what's even funnier? You and me aren't always on the server at the exact same time so is it any wonder we don't see the same staff! urprised:

[imported_Papa Smurf]

Again I personally will say, skill gain is PERFECT. As far as active staff, the staff work very hard and dedicate their "free" time during their busy lives to host events, script and answer pages and question of forums. This is something they do not get payed to do. I noticed a few people complaining on more than one occasion about pages not being answered. On that note, I have been here for quite some time "not day 1" but for awhile. I have paged only ONE time. So maybe instead of complaining about your "probably" useless page why not hop on the forums or get peoples MSN account and ask them? When you complain about inactive staff in every other post, do you think that will make them want to log on and host events? Especially after they just worked for free for the past 40 hours to fix a bunch of bugs?

[imported_p!nk dr@g0n]

Do people not understand that if you open the flood gates that no skill will be worth training, because everyone will be 49x? Do you honestly not see how that would change things?

I don't understand where the disconnect is in people's reasoning, but it doesn't make sense to allow AFK resourcing. May as well just .set all skills to GM upon creation of new character.

Omg, how extreme can you get? I want the skills NEEDED to get started to get easier. I have not once ever ever ever ever ever mentioned crafting skills... Hell, make them even harder, why not MUCH harder, if you want in exchange for magery/resist/taccs/provocation etc getting easier...

[imported_Apollo]

You guys always seem to go from one extreme to the other... :/

You've all made your point and Taran is looking into it.