[imported_Duke]

make each crafting skill at gm have a profitable item when selling back to an npc. I really don't know why you make a loss here and I have never ever played on where everything you craft makes a loss.

To start off just change ONE item in each craft to sell for more to an npc then work your way from there.

[imported_Taran]

I have already stated several times that we are going to change so GM crafted items sell for more. But we're kinda short on devs atm

[imported_Aghast]

lol This makes my first post way off topic :p

Ill go edit it

[imported_Nalo]

If you are someone that has played UO for years, you understand probably that there is a simple cycle with items such as armor, weapons, and steeds. They revolve around PvP, Smithy, Taming, and Bowcraft [among other things]. When you have this AFK macroing gump, it eliminates a large portion of incoming ores and logs and it slows down the amount of armor/weapons created, and thus the amount of people willing to PvP without being naked, or to PvP with weapons and spells and not just spells. When you have a higher need in players for those items, most everyone crafts/trades/sells them or keeps them for themselves to PvP, but when there is an inconvenience like the gump in the way, people are less motivated to spend the time constantly at the computer looking for the gump every now and then. So if you were to take the gump away, people would get more PvP items and money...the problem with this is...what? Someone mentioned that it's just a game..and it is just a game, so I say test the economy or w/e for about 2 weeks to a month without the gump and see what happens. It will be an even balance even with more ore/armor/weapons/money because people will endlessly want more. So people have a lot of money and crap way later on [say a year, if the gump is thrown out], and they get to a point where they don't really care about getting much more, this is where PvP and Steeds come into the balance. When it comes to PvP, there is a very very good chance that there is more than one person that isn't as willing as you to work as hard to get a lot of items, so say he wins [or he and his groupies gank your ass and split the loot or something], then you have lost your items and you get more, and get more, and lose more etc. and then you have to continue getting resources etc. Now, when it comes to steeds, lots of people like having a nice steed, and when you have a decent amount of money/income, you can buy nice steeds and actually use them in PvP without worrying too much about losing them, SO when you are spending what like 60k on steeds and then losing them, you still have to work quite a bit to get your money back.
Now currently, how I get money, I hunt. I hunt crap, because it's all I can do. I don't really want to spend the time yet on mining/smithy because it will take like two weeks or more with the gump, and I need steady income now for the Alien guildstone [yes, still] and guildhouse. What I used to do on IN1 was tailoring to get a good 20k in a day because you actually got income at GM tailoring with shirts and stuff; now all you get for tailoring is a color, which I'm excited about, but I think we could put the skill to more use, eh? So basically I don't have many options for income now except for hunting because I need to get our stone/house asap, and without peacemaking/provocation in effect id be FXXD. Ok so say I was GM mining and smithy, it would take maybe an hour to get a few mediocre sets of armor to sell, which sell for what, 2-3k each? So say that's like 10k an hour, and I personally play roughly 2-3 hours a day other than straight macroing. So I have to spend those full hours getting around 30k a day to get to my goals apart from making armor for myself. So I have little time for PvP until a few months down the road when I have my guildstone, Keep for GH, we have our guild partially together, and I have a few hundred thousand in the bank. So I have that money to spend on rides, scrolls, potions, bows, and then I still need time to craft for myself...
Mostly my point in saying this second part is to bring to notice the fact that half the people here won't be willing to spend so much time to get settled and steady, and they will get bored with being poor and running off of 50k a week. And like I said before, there really is nothing wrong with higher income, it brings on more trades, more PvP, and more activity in general like hunting, and therefore less boredom.

The gump is pointless, there wasn't one on IN1, 2, or reborn, and to my knowledge on XUO, so why now?

Also with tailoring, I'm all for whatever whoever it was said about raising the sell price for various items like bandannas, especially if you worked for GM...but I say for tailoring, keep it as is, and make more sheep/cotton farms. They run out quickly and one run only gets you like 2-3k...shit IMO.

Anyway I have to work so hopefully you got something out of my 'rant' ^_^

-Nalo

[imported_Aghast]

Nice post Nalo, And i agree 100%

*goes to wash his eyes from reading that big compact text :p*

However without a gump i could easy get about 20-50k logs in 1 day without even being near my computer :/

[Galens]

Nalo you are correct about the gump not solving anything, but consider on IN1. Anything you macroed AFK, you were killed if you were found by a GM. I afk macroed a skill(can't remember but it was combat related) on IN1 and was brutally slaughtered inside a guild keep. Keeping mass amounts of gold out and skills(transfers) and afk macroing out of the shard would SERIOUSLY help the shard's economic structure. Look at it like this.


YOu have Two types of players

Player base A

And

Player base B

Player base A had Transferred skills and items converted to gold (SOme members kept their guild stones and their statics)

Player base B had to start from scratch

Okay

Stop for a moment.

Right there you have already created an extreme form of capitalism. This has not worked for any economy, even America (I live in USA)

Now You see a big difference already. Lets explain it even further.

Player base A now has the funds/resources to back their adventures with no worries of setbacks as well as the skills to get them even further.

Stop

Think about this.

Sure they worked very hard on the previous shards. We all worked hard on previous shards, BUT throwing resources/funds into an economy without having worked for them on a new shard only destroys the economy. Thus our predicament currently.

Sure there will be a mass of players complaining about this particular fact, but in order to create something successful, there must be work behind it on something fresh, for it to remain stable.

These things could have been deterred with an extra 5 or 10% in any skill that they chose, rather than importing their entire account and revamping it from there, because in reality, importing goods and having nothing to work towards afterwards, only creates instability.

Take for instance Hitler's case.

He had a plan to destroy America's economy by flooding it with millions upon billions of fake US dollars. This would have caused economic collapse within weeks. The reason for this, is there was no work involved to prepare the economic growth to sustain such an event.

Now

Stop
Think about all that for a moment.

Now

Player base B has to work so hard to catch up with the economic imbalance already presented towards them, this creates havoc, because there truely is no way to make 50k or even 10k in one day starting from scratch. It is impossible, if you did it, you need to tell me your secret so I can pay you real money. With the limited amount of funds/resources given to a new player/character, there is little room to waste while the economy keeps getting shredded more and more by the richest of the shard at the start. Playing catch up is a serious set back. If you were to implement importing of characters, you should have began all new accounts with 50k. Or at least a 30% skill gain in one area of their choice. But then again this STILL destroys the economy, because there was no economic growth in between the period of that 0%-30% gain.


The best resolution for this current situation is to remove all Transfers. This will undoubtedly remove/deter about half the shard's members, but we are not looking for takers, we NEED workers, dedicated members and a strong community, NOT handouts!


Again the best resolution is to late to obtain, that goal would have been to start EVERYONE out at 0 and the standard new char funds/resources. But there are still resolutions to be made to make a decent enough balance to stabalize the economic imbalance at hand.


I will speak further once I talk with some other's

Galens.

One more note.


Taking away AFK macroing of any type incorporated more player base interaction. This should seriously be considered. This again deters hacks and lazy people from slowing down the reputation gain and community stronghold, as well as economic stability.

Please Consider these thoughts. This is a very delicate matter, I know, but a resolution must be concluded without hostility.


ANOTHER note.

Please, at this moment we really only need/want serious posts here, not complaints. We need resolutions. So if you want to post two sentence or flame posts, leave it someplace else. This is a serious issue and must be seriously thought out. Governments didn't just throw shit together and complain, they listened and gave intelligent thought to economic structure and equations.

[MoustaxeOfVanquishin]

Nalo, you're stupid!?
If the gump is removed. EVERYONE WILL HAVE THE SKILL GMED?
So that stupid cycle bullshit = no? NONONO!?
If everyone has the skill then everyone has their own armor and everyone has their own bows and the economy is RUINED.
Then everyone who GMed it with the gump will be pissed cause they had to this and then BLAHBLAHBLAH!

[imported_kitehimuro]

Perhaps make afk resource gathering in guarded areas illegal, just like it was on all the past IN servers. Those risking to gather outside guards and go afk risk getting massacred.

Actually all afk macroing should be illegal in guarded areas, that's basically skillgain handed out for "free" in a safe area. If that's the case why not make macroing available in the Pits, wouldn't that be more or less the same? ( Ok, not, since that's safezone, but since we don't have warring guilds yet it IS the same for now: no-one can kill you while you are macroing )

[imported_Jarhead]

Make afk resource gathering illegal in guarded areas and in unguarded areas everytime someone is afk announce it to the shard it's location :lol:

[imported_Kitiara]

Nalo, you're stupid!?
If the gump is removed. EVERYONE WILL HAVE THE SKILL GMED?
So that stupid cycle bullshit = no? NONONO!?
If everyone has the skill then everyone has their own armor and everyone has their own bows and the economy is RUINED.
Then everyone who GMed it with the gump will be pissed cause they had to this and then BLAHBLAHBLAH!

Finally all the server will be gm mining so the economy will be ruined as same. so what u will do then? im getting confuse of this server... if u want to grow up... and have more playerbase you should have thought a lot of things before doing all the things u made Vet of course and making newbs starting from 0. and all the crap they have.

Now we are in a Capitalism: Vet = rich players with everything practically and if they dont have it they whine to get them, RR weapons, houses, clan deeds(Holy **** 250ks) ya! nice just make that newb players cant get a clan in months Hurra! for the staff... We are only going one way instead of making more ways to survive just more rich people more poor people.

and newbs = poor that tries to survive as they can, now u also want to increase the price of things so it will be harder for the newbs..

In my opinion... if i have more money i will pay more for the things i want to buy. so if im poor im not gonna give a shit for an item i want ¡... with more money more i can pay... with less.. less its quite logical...

I think u made a very nice work, the staff but u fail applying some of ur rules. so try to compensate them so this will make the server grow.

Its my opinion if u dont like, i dont mind so dont try to flame me because i dont really mind what do u think about me or my opinion if u agrees nice if not doenst matter to me

[imported_Halifax]

And about the economy, we obviously need help. I'm not sure what to do to fix the economy that doesn't require much scripting.
If you have any good ideas please let me know by e-mail or PMs.

So why you hired 3 news counselors?, didnt they would take care of checking a good economy?, its seems that right now they are useless, they cant even broadcast anything..., and transfering stactics and rr weapons in my opinion is another mistake, and like i have been reading in this post are two kinds of players, the one that have skills and money and the others that have start from the scratch, so seriosly, the economy seems a little bit ****ed up.

[imported_Dramatic]

I used to be positive on this forum, but after all of my post to help better the shard were ignored and flamed, all I can be is negative and truthful.

It's kinda hard when I said like 2 weeks ago what was going to happen is happening and I tried to give some insight on how to change it and I got flamed, it's really hard to be positive.

I'll try once more, but then screw it.

What is the purpose of no afk resource gathering? It's not the people with the resources changing the economy. It's the people paying for the resources. And where do they get their money?

Blacksmithing - Nice armor that no one wears out of town, oh and they do decorate their house with it.

Carpentry - House Decoration once again, glad I played how many godly amount of hours to legity get that wood.

And Fishing - Are you serious? What else is the skill good for, I think you only get 1gp per fish steak, oh man!

The way I see it is this. 90% of resource gathering is unguarded, and really easy to kill them people.

I think people forget that this is a game! 600k for a rare random dye tub.... How many hours of legitly playing would that be for a damn color? All that does is encourage the trammies. I mean seriously it's a dye tub! It won't win you any fight, only thing it might win you in beauty pageant on top of Britain bank. Do I think they should be free? No. But do I think I should have to play for like 60 hours to get one, no. I play this in my free time, I work a lot. I have to macro stupid useless shit a lot of the time because I don't got time to do anything better. So for the people who actually have a life other than UO get totally screwed.

Do I know the complete solution as of now? No I don't. All I see is a bunch of rules forcing mostly the new players of the shard to have it even more difficult while the players who played on buggy sphere versions of this shard get it hand fed. On INR or XUO was resource macroing illegal? I dunno about either of them shards really.

All I'm saying is it's not fair to transfer skills stones and statics and then tell people they can't resource gather.

Seriously i dont know what some people might have against Diabolical's opinions, since most of his opinions point to the right path to take.He's trying to help and at the same time he's speaking out his mind wich in the most cases turns out to be nothing but the pure truth. All i know is that if there were more people who thought the way he does, this place would be a much better place. Period