Why are XUO and IN players at odds? - Printable Version
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Why are XUO and IN players at odds? - imported_Bost - 12-14-2007
Why is it that our two communities can't seem to come to an understanding? What problems are hindering a mutual understanding amongst the lot of us?
The hot topic seems to be the PvP that exists on IN:X. It's apparent that PvP seems to not be satisfying both parties currently. The XUO players are the PvPing majority and thus have the most arguments for/against/about the state of the PvP. However, they are not the only ones that enjoy PvP, which is where one of the more prominent problems comes from. Introducing a drastically different server such as IN to XUO's mix is hairy. On IN, the PvP, while not drastically different, was certainly a culture shock in comparison to how it was on XUO. Trying to reach a compromise on the two server's styles is creating a lot of conflict. The XUOers want a carebear free server with quick skills and die-hard PvP, whereas INers want a more "work to earn it" type of skill gain in conjunction with noble and meaningful (in a sense) PvP. Being the majority of the PvPing community, XUOers appear to want their voices to mean more than IN's because it is more up their alley. This is a sort of selfish way of thinking in that XUO aren't the only ones who PvPed out of the two shards, so in order to combine the two styles...some changes have had to of been made. Likewise, PvPers on IN's behalf feel the same way in that they've had to compromise their habitual ways of fighting.
Now, as far as roleplaying goes, there are those who love it and those who hate it. On IN there was a large roleplaying community and vice versa on XUO's behalf. Not to say that there were/weren't roleplayers on both servers, because there were some of both. The thing is though is that some players are mocking others because of the way they play the game. There is no real need for this and it will only bring about more trouble and bickering. If you are some "l33t" guy, it seems like you're only wanting to get a kill because you're "that" kind of person and when someone tries to roleplay with you it just doesn't matter. Likewise, roleplayers seem to be teaming up to eradicate those "l33t" guys, but they are just acting like them. Instead of creating a boundary like that, why not just interact and stop ruining a roleplayer's immersion? If you don't care to roleplay, you don't have to, but at least be courteous enough to either not talk or try interact in a way that won't ruin someone's fun and cause them to say to themselves "God, I hate guys that just kill whatever and spam LOL & noob when they do it." Doing that kind of stuff will get you nowhere, because it's just ruining the game for someone. Sure, you're happy about it, but I've seen it push people to the point of leaving a server. Why in the world would you push to have someone leave the server? This is a game that CAN NOT BE WON, nor will it ever be won, so you may as well just try to habitat someone else's playstyle while having your own. It's another compromise we all have to and should (if we haven't), make.
Look at the mouther of the dragon, the forums. How disgusting has this place become recently? INers are calling out XUOers and vice versa. People are creating lines of division and creating a civil war. Nothing is going to be resolved by cursing someone out, flaming them just because, throwing out a ton of "noob" and "lol" type remarks or by saying something negative about the place they come from. You will get nowhere in doing so, so you might as well stop it and try to converse respectfully. Try to get both sides of the story before you speak. Trust me, I've only recently realized that and I feel disgusting for having flamed a couple of people myself before doing so. It's childish, it will not take you far at all, and while your respect with one person may go up...it'll decline for many more.
On the same subject of the forums: What is wrong with the staff? It seems like every other thread is telling them what they are doing wrong and how they should do their jobs. It's terrible to see both IN and XUO players talking about how much this server sucks and that it has nothing to offer. It's hard not to say "suck it up or leave," but that's kind of the only thing that comes to mind. Instead of flaming the staff, disregarding their hard work, or degrading what's been implemented...try a little more constructive criticism. The more constructive criticism and input the staff gets, the more things will change for the bettter. We are, for the most part, leaving the staff in the dark as to what we want. However, we expect what we want to be done will be done by the staff, and when it doesn't happen we get pissed off while all the while we didn't tell them one thing about what we wanted. This is a disgusting habit that we have to stop, guys. They are here to help us and us them; the staff are members of the community too.
Look, XUO player or IN player, need to realize that we've all made sacrafices. We can't let ourselves get too arrogant or selfish in our opinions, actions, or motives. If you're upset about giving something up, so is someone else on the other side. We've got to knock down this Berlin Wall we've built up between our servers, otherwise we're going to fizzle out as a server by next summer. If IN was good enough by itself, we wouldn't be in this situation and things would be just fine. Likewise with XUO, if it was good enough, it'd still be up and running on it's own. However, that's not how things happened. There was a supported merger that happened, both shards have had to make compromises and sacrafices. Things will not be the same so we can either complain about that or move forward and create a community that'll take us the distance.
We are all brothers and sisters now, whether or not we like it. If we split, our servers will either be lackluster or non-existant. I'm tired of using IN or XUO and not IN:X.
I am IN:X.
You are IN:X.
We are IN:X.
Why are XUO and IN players at odds? - imported_Mephisto - 12-14-2007
+1
Nicely Wrote might i say
Why are XUO and IN players at odds? - imported_Gwynn - 12-14-2007
Jolly jolly!
Why are XUO and IN players at odds? - imported_Hate - 12-14-2007
Bost Wrote:The XUOers want a carebear free server with quick skills and die-hard PvP, whereas INers want a more "work to earn it" type of skill gain in conjunction with noble and meaningful (in a sense) PvP. Being the majority of the PvPing community, XUOers appear to want their voices to mean more than IN's because it is more up their alley. This is a sort of selfish way of thinking in that XUO aren't the only ones who PvPed out of the two shards, so in order to combine the two styles...some changes have had to of been made. Likewise, PvPers on IN's behalf feel the same way in that they've had to compromise their habitual ways of fighting.
Let me ask you, what was different at the IN pvp except for that it does not have the .wop spam?
What I think is the big difference between the shard is that the XUO players have played this PvP for way longer than the IN players have, so they know the PvP very well. They know how to use the spam properly and there for the IN players usually dies real fast and then they think that this PvP is "not balanced and a crap PvP". But seriously, it's all just about learning the PvP, it is real balanced and once you learn it is real fun, and it can be noble.
I don't think it would change who wins or dies in tourneys no matter if we would remove spam or not. What it would do is slow down duels a lot, and cause it to be a lot more about "ok now he flamestrikes so I heal!", instead of "Ok now I better heal cause I am at 65 hp and IF he is flamestriking I will be in deep shit after it hits." Having to THINK while pvping instead of just hitting the proper button to counter an attack is way more fun in my eyes.
I actually think that the XUO pvp is "noble" as well, it is just that most XUO players may not be that noble. They may say stuff like "U SUX DIE!" or "HAHA! NOOB!" when you're dead, but seriously, the duels can still be noble, it's just the "after u die" part that may not be. But we're not all like those people that may fit that description, and even they are only like that towards people they do not respect, so if u would work hard at the PvP and kick their ass sometimes they would be a lot nicer to you, perhaps even suck up to you.
Lets not forget that it has been decided long before this shard merged together that this shard would get the XUO PvP and the IN roleplaying. If we would not have got to keep the XUO PvP (which is a real big part of the XUO legacy) we would not have agree'd to merge, because then it would just have been like turning our players over to IN, because almost everything else is INs stuff at the shard. Think about it, what else is not like it was at IN? Except for that you've got a bunch of new players to the shard, a lot of new good scripts, an autosupply-tourney, perhaps a few new armors and a bunch of new staffmembers. Please fill me in on all the other things that the XUO community has added to IN-X, because seriously, if you would be removing the XUO PvP I do not see much of XUO still around, except for the "X" in the name of the shard. Both shards had to compromise during the merge, both shards sacrificed some of what we had before, your sacrifice was the PvP, please stop trying to change it and instead get used to it, because without it the XUO players would not feel at home at all, and then it would not be a merge, it would be the XUO community being transfered to an Imagine Nation-shard.
I'm sure you can get used to the PvP if you just practice a lot. Try to get to know some XUO players as well, because the best way to learn the PvP is to learn it from somebody who already knows it.
Breaking that wall that you spoke about is real important tho, I support you in that, we need to get the XUO and IN players to stop hating each other some way, but changing the PvP is really not the way to do it, that will probably stop the hate, but only because of one reason - because most of the XUO players would be leaving the shard - and that's not what we want.
Since I am the PvP coordinator I decided to focus mainly on the PvP part in your thread. I may answer the other parts as well later on, but for now lets finish this "trying to change the PvP-discussion" once and for all, because it has been going on for way too long in way too many threads. I know that your intentional idea of this thread wasn't to bring up another "change the pvp discussion", but instead to get the players to stop hating each other one way or another. We will continue to try and find a way for that to happen, but it can't be by changing the PvP though..
Ok that would be all for now. Feel free to discuss other ways to make players like each other better tho, I don't mind that at all, we all want that to happen after all. :]
Regards,
Hate
Why are XUO and IN players at odds? - imported_Jimmar - 12-14-2007
I dont know any of the players so I hate you all.
Why are XUO and IN players at odds? - imported_Lerri - 12-15-2007
Quote:Let me ask you, what was different at the IN pvp except for that it does not have the .wop spam?
actually wop spamming existed but UOA filtered it so it became pointless. But apart from that there were several differences.
stat adjusting wasnt disabled, you could customize your char to your style of play (to a limit degree)
all scrolls took half mana and time to cast, they werent fiddled with.
armour was required, and higher armor gave better protection anyone with halfa brain didnt die to apure scrolling, even vs multiple people someone with an original style of thinking would win out against the odds.
all the skills were in effect, (until some had to be disabled due to bug abuse, teleport and RA) this allowed for even more creativity and variation in pvp, wall scrolls and curses and poison were used (poison cost 1 bandage to cure)
IN1 pvp wasnt perfect, infact it was quite broken once people got their heads around sphere (in itself broken) but it involved brain power over the necessity to mash keys. and contained a variety of tactics which kept a person entertained.
so those are the differences, and imo it was just as if not more "hardcore" than the current pvp on inx, but to each his own.
Why are XUO and IN players at odds? - imported_Bost - 12-15-2007
In response to what you said Hate: I didn't say we needed to change PvP at all. Only that the styles from both the servers were different from one another and we all needed to realize that we are going to have to understand and work at how it's going to be. Again, nothing needs to be changed about PvP. We just need to all understand it is how it is.
I suppose I may have came off as otherwise, and if I did, I apologize for that.
Why are XUO and IN players at odds? - imported_Jimmar - 12-15-2007
Bost Wrote:In response to what you said Hate: I didn't say we needed to change PvP at all. Only that the styles from both the servers were different from one another and we all needed to realize that we are going to have to understand and work at how it's going to be. Again, nothing needs to be changed about PvP. We just need to all understand it is how it is.
I suppose I may have came off as otherwise, and if I did, I apologize for that.
Yes continue to FS dump on people that is what pvp is... cool huh? No need to balanced those other weapons swordsmanship is the only melee skill needed in the game. /Sarcasm
Pull your head out of your ass.
Why are XUO and IN players at odds? - imported_Bost - 12-15-2007
Jimmar Wrote:Yes continue to FS dump on people that is what pvp is... cool huh? No need to balanced those other weapons swordsmanship is the only melee skill needed in the game. /Sarcasm
Pull your head out of your ass.
What?
This is exactly what I'm getting at. What does that have to do with anything I've said? I don't care about PvP, it's not in my hands, I'm not saying it needs to change for life to be better here nor that it doesn't need to. I've just stated that there are two different views on it around here.
Why are XUO and IN players at odds? - imported_Kamos - 12-15-2007
Nice line of thought Bost and I agree with most of the things you mentioned, except...
Bost Wrote:Doing that kind of stuff will get you nowhere, because it's just ruining the game for someone. Sure, you're happy about it, but I've seen it push people to the point of leaving a server. Why in the world would you push to have someone leave the server? This is a game that CAN NOT BE WON, nor will it ever be won, so you may as well just try to habitat someone else's playstyle while having your own. It's another compromise we all have to and should (if we haven't), make.
That's a group of players on it's own. Their way of playing is to piss everyone off as much as they can and/or ruin the game for everyone they can. That's what is fun for them. If PvPer has a good fight that's when he wins. RPer has a good roleplaying encounter that's a win for him. When someone quits the shard because of a griefer that's a win for the griefer. Making a compromise for these people means they have lost.
Why are XUO and IN players at odds? - Galens - 12-15-2007
Canaris Wrote:Nice line of thought Bost and I agree with most of the things you mentioned, except...
That's a group of players on it's own. Their way of playing is to piss everyone off as much as they can and/or ruin the game for everyone they can. That's what is fun for them. If PvPer has a good fight that's when he wins. RPer has a good roleplaying encounter that's a win for him. When someone quits the shard because of a griefer that's a win for the griefer. Making a compromise for these people means they have lost.
Very nice perspective. Keep it going, this is entertaining.
Why are XUO and IN players at odds? - imported_Jimmar - 12-15-2007
Bost Wrote:What?
This is exactly what I'm getting at. What does that have to do with anything I've said? I don't care about PvP, it's not in my hands, I'm not saying it needs to change for life to be better here nor that it doesn't need to. I've just stated that there are two different views on it around here.
Pvp isnt balanced.. you mentioned it didnt need changed.. if you dont pvp then please dont even type the abbreviation.
Quote:Again, nothing needs to be changed about PvP
That line alone pissed me off..
I want there to be more to pvp then just having to gm mage and join a group of people who spam all day.. cuz right now thats all ya need I want to see fencing mace and archery get their fill as well..