Ressing with bandages way too fast. - Printable Version
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Ressing with bandages way too fast. - Lags - 03-23-2012
You do not make "solid points and arguments". A lot of people here do. You don't.
Ressing with bandages way too fast. - Gang - 03-23-2012
I really think ressing should stay the way it is, because it's pretty easy to cut man, it really is. The way it is now makes it possible to win the fights outnumbered, because like you pointed out you want to loot. "No cut, no kill"
I remember on INX we used to win fights with Pedro or Madman being together vs 5 decent pvpers.. Ofcourse I'm not saying we often did win 5v2 vs those guys, but we did, and the thing that we always were outnumbered (90% of time) is just a fact. Yeah we could die several times, but we were faster at ressing and managed to kill\cut when we had a chance. Remember, you have to stay 1 tile away from the teammate to be able to ress him, while you can cut from like ~4 tiles. It's not as easy to stick together as it sounds because when you do 5v2 your kinda busy using LoS to save your ass, so opponents often force you to spilt. And if your teammate dies, you have like 1 second to run to the guy, usually if you were further than 6-10 tiles away - hes cutted... Auto-ressing scripts suck man, everything automated suck. Seriously the machine can't see all the issues that might happen in gank...
The easiest way to beat the opponents that outnumber you it in this PvP is to seperate them, kill/cut 1-2 "bravest" that followed you further than the rest (or faster than the rest). It's pretty hard to find time to pick a target when 5 people are after you and you don't use TS\Vent\Skype. I don't even mention the mana issues because usually you end up wasting it all on healing, thus you have to either recall or run. I would never go 5v2 knowing that the ressing have ANY delay, because it would mean once you died - you're cutted. Here good teammates will ress you few times before, it's another PvP dynamic. Thats exactly why Maka fixed (or made it harder to make) the autocut on IN-X.
I remember to cut it fast manually you just target the ground under body just before he died... I was blamed in autocut script use several times because this way you can sometimes cut the person before animation is even completed. I mean, the animation of him falling on the ground is still going on , but bones are under him already. The way res\cut works now is just perfect imho , and I would hate to see it changed.
There are few tricks to make it's painfully hard for opponents to ress. Or impossible even
I better explain them to ya ingame though... ;pP.S. on the topic on the outnumbered fights. I remember when you just came here you said that you think it's dumb as hell that main PvP spot (britain bridge) has almost no los blockers, no corners or doors to play with and so on. And I 100% agree with that , I didn't mention it then because you were also suggesting a lot of changes that would spoil current PvP system in my eyes (such as certain spells fizzling FS and so on) but you were right.
And this is why many good pvpers don't like the bridge. It's painfully hard to stay alive vs big group of people there because it's way too easy to keep the enemies in the LoS there.
North Ocllo was my favorite spot to gank. I know the INers are used to Serpent's Hold. And north serpents is a pretty good PvP spot too. There are two gates and the despise entrance, guarded one leads you to britain bank and for some reason red gate drops you at bridge;p In my eyes it would make more sense if the destination point was set at the norh SH or Ocllo...
P.P.S. I'd vote for ocllo though, as I don't think there should be any player owned houses in the main PvP area. It gives one side advantage over another, and it's what we got at bridge because of guard zone.. A static house (or even a small house) is a advantage as well. But since bridge is ultimately helps "the bigger" team win, I think it's good that we allowed to have it there. But the popular , or even "main" PvP spot shouldn't have any player owned houses I think. It's were it all should be even.. Neither the guard zone to run into, nor the house...
Ressing with bandages way too fast. - Loki - 03-23-2012
Not entering the debate itself at this time, I just want to say that during my various spying on fights I've seen the bandage res vs. cut thing go either way so it must be relatively balanced. Also, I've seen the health loss from bandage res result in disaster a few times as well, so I really do think all these things come in to play quite well at the moment. That said I'm indifferent enough that I would be willing to back whatever change, or not change, public opinion wanted.
Ressing with bandages way too fast. - Thenu - 03-23-2012
Scare crow Wrote:I feel that it is perfect the way that it is. Ressurecting with bandages does several things in Ganks. We need to be able to res fast and regroup when ganking 10 v 10 or you will never ever be able to get away once you die. There is already a penalty of - 50 HP for Ressurecting a player which is already very harsh in a gank situation because that player can be killed very quickly. Aside from the reasonable penalty, Ressurecting also gives ganking the challenge that it needs. If Ressurecting took any longer . . . No one would ever be able to get away. We would cut 100% of the time and just keep them dead until we kill the others. Increasing the timer would really harm the Ganking environment. Who wants to be stuck dead watching people gank for 40 minutes just because the enemy won't let you Ressurecting in occlo.
You have to be aware that the real Hardcore Ganks take place in Occlo, Buccs, SERPS and any other red town where Ressurecting is not as easy and as safe as it is near the bridge. Bridge is to kill the 30 blue players that have no idea what their doing and to steal their things. I see where your trying to go with it and I'm not trying to bash you in any way but from a Ganker perspective . . This would literally destroy ganking. I'm not even exaggerating.
Just felt like I need to give my opinion.
Thank you.
Its funny cause you were in the fight he was referring to. We killed DcollisionD 3 times on 4v6 or 7 and he got ressed instantly, thats just retarded. Its promoting ganks as greater groups have the advantage of instaressing (due to more HP to use) more often the outnumbered. So even if the smaller group would outclass the bigger group, the smaller group cant get close enough fast enough to cut before the bigger group can instares.
Ressing with bandages way too fast. - Raziel_ - 03-23-2012
Brandon Wrote:You need to realize that sm0ke generally tends to only want changes that will benefit him. If it's something that will make it harder for him to PvP/gank then he'll strongly oppose such changes.
Don't you? Don't lag? Don't I?!
Everyone only suggests what they think would benefit them! thats completely normal..............................................................................................
And about the discussion i say leave ressing with bandages the way it is.. if someone gets ressed then kill him again.. the resser already takes a lot of damage to ress someone with bandages, you need to take that into your advantage and kill the resser!
Ressing with bandages way too fast. - Shadok - 03-23-2012
sm0ke Wrote:because i have a macro set on said person that they killed
I've also read that you called it autores when it's clearly not.
Uhh i am confused
You have a macro for ressing your comrades but yet it´s not a autores !!!
Ohh wait it´s not auto when you have to hit a singel key or...
Ressing with bandages way too fast. - Lags - 03-23-2012
Well put as usual Vys, but I'm going to have to disagree.
It's not that if you die you CAN'T be ressed, you can still res with bandages or An Corp. I think bandages should take as long as An Corp. Why make wars last that much longer? If you have a 10v10 like Scare Crow said, I could easily see it turning into a never ending cluster fu#* with the care bear ressing
I think whoever wins the PvP should win the fight, and the spoils. 1 second res is just another obstacle to keep people alive and keep peoples loot in their bag :confused: It also makes it that much more impossible to be a lone wolf and try to PvP on your own. If you fight your ass off 3v1 and kill someone, good job. You just wasted your resources. If you kill a guy 3v1 of course they are going to res, but you should at least have a few seconds to stop it.
In a nutshell, I don't think winning or losing a fight should fully depend on running up and cutting a body before it hits the ground. Honestly, it's stupid. You guys aren't stupid, but I think you might be so used to some things that should have been changed a long time ago.
Vys the LOS thing yea, for sure. That big building at BB is actually perfect for LOS if tables blocked. It's a blast having big fights in there. Only problem is tables don't block LOS here so it's just a big useless building. I haven't played in Occlo in a long time. Is there a lot of LOS blockers there? What I've noticed here is the only things that really block LOS are building walls and trees. Trees are great but you can't do much intricate LOS work running around a building. That's for another discussion though
Ressing with bandages way too fast. - Lags - 03-23-2012
Raziel_ Wrote:And about the discussion i say leave ressing with bandages the way it is.. if someone gets ressed then kill him again.. the resser already takes a lot of damage to ress someone with bandages, you need to take that into your advantage and kill the resser!
Why should I have to? I should at least have a couple more seconds time to run up and cut the body. Healing isn't exactly hard here. So what if the resser loses half health? He knows this. He is going to heal immediately after ressing making him hard to kill. So, by the time you kill the healer, the guy you just killed is fully healed just resses the healer you just killed! Do you see where I'm going with this? Why make it so god damn hard to kill someone and get their stuff? Seriously? 1 second res? Really guys?
Ressing with bandages way too fast. - Adam - 03-23-2012
Lags Wrote:Why should I have to? I should at least have a couple more seconds time to run up and cut the body. Healing isn't exactly hard here. So what if the resser loses half health? He knows this. He is going to heal immediately after ressing making him hard to kill. So, by the time you kill the healer, the guy you just killed is fully healed just resses the healer you just killed! Do you see where I'm going with this? Why make it so god damn hard to kill someone and get their stuff? Seriously? 1 second res? Really guys?
With good strategy you will actually benefit from people resurrecting each other. I can tell you more about how to use the bandage-resses to your advantage on the shard.
I can understand your frustration when you are on fighting on a team that is outnumbered, finally manages to get a kill, and then the guy is getting ressed 0.1 sec later, but that's far from the whole picture.
In a 2vs10 you still wouldn't be able to loot if you did manage to cut. Sure the dead guy would have to loot his own items from the bones, but think about this: IF the resurrection with bandages would have a delay then you wouldn't even be fighting these 10 guys, because if you did you would be dead in two secs. You might be able to survive if you try to get away, or run behind objects to make them fizzle, but IF you actually go into the open and decides to flamestrike them, even with perfect timing, then you will get 10 flamestrikes on yourself, and you will be dead, and your friend won't be able to resurrect you, and it would be over..
It would not promote ganking when you are on the smaller team, it would pretty ruin it completely, if you ask me.
But if you are playing in an even team, lets say 3v3 or something, then it is going to be about a lot of factors. Who is the better cutter? who is the better resurrecter? who is the better LoS-runner? Which is the better team at staying close when you are about to die, but can still run out of LoS when you have to? Who knows how to counter the "autoressers" the best way and manage to get a cut?
It's a lot of fun and once I tell you how I counter autoressers I'm pretty sure you're going to change your mid. It's not that I don't understand how you feel or why you ask for this change, it's just that I don't think you see the whole picture yet, and when you do I think you will change your mind, just like you did regarding this PvP-style of ours : )
Ressing with bandages way too fast. - Raziel_ - 03-23-2012
Lags Wrote:Why should I have to? I should at least have a couple more seconds time to run up and cut the body. Healing isn't exactly hard here. So what if the resser loses half health? He knows this. He is going to heal immediately after ressing making him hard to kill. So, by the time you kill the healer, the guy you just killed is fully healed just resses the healer you just killed! Do you see where I'm going with this? Why make it so god damn hard to kill someone and get their stuff? Seriously? 1 second res? Really guys?
I see your point, but if you are outnumbered... that's already a disadvantage!
So they can res after you kill right? you can do the same with your friend! complain about mana? well they also use mana to try attacking you, and when that guy comes back he will have low mana and hp and will have to waste more mana to heal up! so will the resser! i dont see disadvantage if you can do the same as they do! everything is about strategy... see a player is about to die? run over him and cut his body asap! cant cut because you are outnumbered? dude... on a 6v2 you arent supposed to survive... imagine if all the 6 concentrate fire on you? 37 fs * 6 player = 222 hp.. only way to survive would be polymorphed anyway...
I'm not saying you are wrong to come here and point out your opnion, actually i respect you! everyone should do the same! you, and those against your opnion!
But the last decision comes from taran, and whatever he decides ill support ;D
Ressing with bandages way too fast. - sm0ke - 03-23-2012
By the way it wasn't "auto res" I was the one who resed him it also depends on the person how fast they hit war mode. It's called team work you know I put my self at risk healing him when i was sitting at 20 life a couple of times and not one of you fsed me? What it comes down to is lags you did killed dcollisonD, great it was a 4v6 that stuff will tend to happen, you weren't fast enough to cut you were barley even in our range so how fast i resd him or not wouldn't of mattered
Ressing with bandages way too fast. - Scare crow - 03-23-2012
It's all about timing. You need to practice Ressurecting and cutting. I can do both extremely fast and that's because I am constantly ganking.
You don't want to put a wait time on aid Ressurecting because Ganks will end in 20 seconds and the bad team will log off. All this will do is cause Ganks to end quicker and force people to run away if 1 person dies. I don't understand the benefit of changing this. I've been ganking with this exact style for over 10 years and I can tell you first hand that changing this will destroy ganking. There won't be Ganks anymore . . People will refrain in fear of not getting Ressurecting. Half of the players that play Ultima in general are care beat. I'm not calling you guys care bear but just imagine what this change will do. It will literally stop gank. Or . . Cause people to recruit 50 people in a guild and drop the few best gankers the other team has then just kill the rest. O wait?! Doesn't your guild gank with 20+ players at a time against groups of 3?? Oooooo so it may benefit you. You guys try and shot on smoke all the time but you don't realize how long we have been playing this game. You are the same as me and smoke. You suggest anything that will benefit you. The ganking is perfect . . . Why all of a sudden is there a need to change it?! Because you can't Jill and cut/loot me depth and dco 6v3. That's really not my problem and you shouldn't be making it the rest of the servers problem. Practice the ganking and you will get that cut you've always wanted. Believe in yourself.