[Andrew]

I have PVPed, but since it was so heavily based around scrolls I got fed up with it

[Adam]

[SIZE="3"]Here's what I think:[/SIZE]

Surviving with 110 health (120 with bless) is WAY too easy when flamestrike (strongest spell in the game) only does 38 damage.

38 x 3 = 114 dmg which means that you could survive 3 flamestrike without even hitting your heal button ONCE. That is INSANE. If you would actually use the greater heal spell as well you would easily survive almost any dump unless you are hit BELOW 38 damage AND can't drink a greater heal pot OR use a greater heal scroll (not very likely since there are greater mana potions as well which refills you mana to almost full all the time).

Greater heal spell right now costs 11 mana and heals for 32 damage. This means that if somebody is NOT able to use a greater heal scroll or a greater heal potion he would die IF he is being hit down to 50 damage AND is being flamestrike three times, but ONLY if both players have equally good timing between flamestrikes and the healing guy aren't able to drink or use a scroll. This scenario does not happen very often.. higher flamestrike damage and a bit higher greater heal damage would help here.

[SIZE="3"]I would like to change these spells:[/SIZE]

46 damage with the flamestrike scroll. Mana cost around 30. (which means you'll still be able to cast 4 flamestrikes from full mana before you run out of mana, if you have 120 mana, and this is WITHOUT a greater mana potion, this is more than enough, possibly even too much, but at least it's better than what we have now (22 mana cost for a flamestrike scroll), which is insane, at this current point you're pretty much able to cast flamestrikes for an eternity without running out of mana, and I have seen a lot of players complain about that.

42 health given by greater heal spell, and 11 mana cost. (lowering this to 40 or increasing FS damage to 48 may be a better idea but at least something close to this)

32 (or something around there) health given for greater heal scroll, and the mana cost on 30 or something. (This makes it a life-saver and not something you can use too much and still have plenty of mana. This is still something you'll be able to use quite a lot considering there are total mana potions and considering that you are able to have 120 mana here, but at least it's a start, right now greater heal scroll only costs 21 mana which is very low considering the total manas and 120 int, after all you can pretty much cast TWO greater heal scrolls on yourself before ONE flamestrike scroll hits you, so this is too low).

Higher % success when using a bandage, right now it's very low or so it feels (perhaps higher chance if you have high dex like somebody else suggested in another thread, this will promote the use of high dex)

This suggestion may sound crazy but I would actually prefer normal manas only instead of having total manas, only because of that right now you are able to make really stupid dumps and all you need to do after it is drink a total mana potion and you are back at enough mana to heal from pretty much any dump coming back at you. I think that "risking it" and casting 3-4 flamestrikes should mean that you won't have much mana left otherwise and that you will have to rely on bandages OR only be able to drink one mana potion and have around 22 mana left to heal twice, after all wasting all your mana on a failed attempt should have some penalty I think.

I'm not saying these numbers I've written are the most balanced ones, because they probably aren't, it's just a first draft really, but at least they will help balancing the PvP a bit better compared to what it is now if you ask me. Please read and reply with what you think

- Adam

[sm0ke]

The PvP is fine if you use poison weaken etc as it is in the game, I was discussing today with habibi the only thing that I would really change at this point is the min/max damage on weapons they hit way too hard and rarely miss and can easily favor the duel in somebodies favor depending how well you swing and hard you swing.

[Adam]

The PvP is fine if you use poison weaken etc as it is in the game, I was discussing today with habibi the only thing that I would really change at this point is the min/max damage on weapons they hit way too hard and rarely miss and can easily favor the duel in somebodies favor depending how well you swing and hard you swing.

Weaken, Curse and deadly poison "helps" a bit but it is still very easy to stay alive if you know how to heal. This has always been the case when you have too low damage on flamestrikes and total mana potions involved, plus too low mana cost on greater heal scrolls. Having weapons that hit really strong and deadly poisons you all the time may seem like a good idea but it turns the duels away from skill and towards who has the best weapon and who manages to drain the other guy of mana first.

I'm not saying you can't kill people here, nor that it isn't "fun", its just that it could be "better", and I think these changes would satisfy a lot of the people who is saying that it is sooo easy to stay alive and that duels are sooo boring to watch cause it is just all hitting and fsing all the time, and that the duels take forever.

[stonychavez]

all i ask is no WoP spam and multiple types of the same scrolls i.e. 2 different kinds of fs scrolls


some aspects of XUO pvp i liked, and some I didn't... just my 2 cents


and I know I don't pvp now, but that doesn't mean i have never pvp'd and that I don't plan too

[Gang]

Expressing opinion never hurts as long as it's objective, I mean we all want the same thing, a balance system. If anything I suggest has flaws(it most likely always does) I'd more than like to hear them myself, so...


About scrolls well IMHO theres no need to add 2 types of scrolls, we could make it so something like meteor swarm or mind blast would be useful instead...

[sm0ke]

Weaken, Curse and deadly poison "helps" a bit but it is still very easy to stay alive if you know how to heal. This has always been the case when you have too low damage on flamestrikes and total mana potions involved, plus too low mana cost on greater heal scrolls. Having weapons that hit really strong and deadly poisons you all the time may seem like a good idea but it turns the duels away from skill and towards who has the best weapon and who manages to drain the other guy of mana first.

I'm not saying you can't kill people here, nor that it isn't "fun", its just that it could be "better", and I think these changes would satisfy a lot of the people who is saying that it is sooo easy to stay alive and that duels are sooo boring to watch cause it is just all hitting and fsing all the time, and that the duels take forever.

Well yeah I did agree to increase the damage on flamestrike scrolls and light imo :p

[Habibi Jones]

Gang I like your idea about tweaking a current spell to become useful, but then that just means that there is yet another scroll people have to make in order to compete.
Increasing damage dealt as well as mana taken for FS and Light will clean up PvP A LOT! The key will be to keep the dmg/mana rate the same for both spells.
You really have to think about all pvp rates as functions with variable... If you create graphs you can easily discover for yourself how certain rates can be changed and what effect that would have on PvP.
I guess I'll spend the next hour making a bunch of graphs/superimposing them on each other so you guys can see what I mean.
Of course with every suggestion/discussion baby steps are best... Testing is important.

edit: Adam, I really like your post... I don't want to nit pick at rates but I agree with everything you posted, as well as decreasing the failrate of bandages slightly (very slightly).

[Gang]

Dude if you are forced to learn the Mathematical Analysis at Uni it doesn't mean we have to do the same I wouldn't ever repeat that process.
Altho it's been much easier at Economy&Finances than was at Information Management, it still would **** me up;p Though indeed it helps to see how things affect other things and seeing the problem from all sides. Chess also help with that^^

I agree with the list Adam prepared;p Altho IMO change like this should be tested for a while. I mean I for sure would love it, as it would make it possible for good gank team be valuable vs 5-6 (it was like that on inx) but old school INers might still feel like someone changed the gameplay they loved and we'd be left with 50 players again...

[Habibi Jones]

Ha it's really not complicated at all, and it really does help to balance values and rates
I got high though so I didn't feel like making the graphs :/ Been meaning to post a bunch of them though, I'll get around to it.

[Lamby]

There we go. Some players are thinking it's too easy to survive, others think it's too hard:/

That's how you know its balanced, when both sides are unhappy.

[Atlas]

It really is hard to survive a 1v2 if you're just using heals/reflect...however if one knows how to use walls/tele/para/invis/etc effectively, then it's not so hard.

Basically I think GH scroll mana intake should be lowered, and FS scroll mana and damage should be raised.