[imported_JuM]

BLack_Raider, you do realize that when you sum our PvP up to something scripted in injection you appear really ignorant, right? I doubt any good top PvPer has highly automated macros as they are not viabel in our PvP, but if you know one, direct them in my way and we can do a 1v1 and settle this.

So, if you have something creative to say, go for it, but stop the bashing. If you want, I can use Razor and you can use cool scripted macros in inject and we will see who wins.

I've seen a lot of good ideas in this topic, but I have also seen some really offensive ones.

Offensive as in "The PvP is all yours, we have nothing on this server", offensive as in passing judgment without even having the slightest idea of what this PvP is and how it works and offensive as in "spam makes this more about luck". You BLack_Raider, and some other people, have decided to a read a book in a language you do not understand and then complain cause the words don't make sense.

It is really easy to see how much people understand something by seeing what kind of critique they offer. Here are a few bad points with our PvP from an old IN perspective that I've seen people say:
- Spamming is ridiculous from a role playing point of view.
- Ganking is a naked orgie.
- The variety in weapons and armor is not the same.

Those are the few that I remember from the top of my head, there are more legit ones though. Try keeping the critique to simple and factual things, don't bring in your lack of understanding.

I have a few VERY controversial ideas on how to add armor and weapons to ganking while still keeping the geared PvP exactly the way it was, but I can't say that it is fully "sphere"... I'll discuss them with Taran and see what he says, but until then, try not to scare away players with bad informed posts and anger.

I agree with black_Raider in someways but not at all. Sorry but you are talking in the sameway with him the shard owner.

Offensive as in "The PvP is all yours, we have nothing on this server", offensive as in passing judgment without even having the slightest idea of what this PvP is and how it works and offensive as in "spam makes this more about luck". You BLack_Raider, and some other people, have decided to a read a book in a language you do not understand and then complain cause the words don't make sense.

I am going on with your example. This not a book we havent seen before. We know the book and how to read it. We know the language. The XUO pvp system is closer than classical sphere shards. However i dont understand why are so hard when someone says something about the pvp system. We dont tell you delete the old pvp system and replace with IN1 pvp system. If you love the XUO pvp system its ok. But you should listen to IN1 player's opinions. Just add somethings from our pvp system.
I gave the cant cast while holding weapon script. Its not going to make big changes in your pvp system. also it will help to economy. I understand you about bLacK_Raider messages. He is not talking about the solution just flaming. He is trying to say do something its not ok in this way.

[imported_Rabbi Samild]

I don't like seeing posts that say IN + XUO don't mix. Who cares about how hard crafting skills are? If you don't want to spend the time to GM crafts, just spend a few minutes hunting to get the gold to buy the resources. Pots and scrolls are cheap, so once you get through the initial week (and that's all it takes to get down tactics, archery, swords, healing, magery, medi) it's cake.

[imported_Kitiara]

I don't like seeing posts that say IN + XUO don't mix. Who cares about how hard crafting skills are? If you don't want to spend the time to GM crafts, just spend a few minutes hunting to get the gold to buy the resources. Pots and scrolls are cheap, so once you get through the initial week (and that's all it takes to get down tactics, archery, swords, healing, magery, medi) it's cake.

If I have to think like you Rabbi... Who cares about pvp? if you dont mind that crafts are hard.. why dont make them easier?

The problem also is that most dungeons you have to be quiet well prepared to get fast money and barely you can pvm alone.

Also if you dont want to pvp or pvm and tries Treasure chest, which i think they were quite better than now (right now sucks) then they nerf it.

We all should accept that every aspect in the server it should be changed not only pvp. Pvm and some skills should be changed, Treasure Chest also. ETc..

Dont always stick to Pvp. Thats not the reason.

[imported_Ryuuku]

I see your point Kitiara.

But things arent so hard, they are unbalanced I believe.

And I dont blame staff for having some unbalanced things on shard, because its really hard to balance it without hurt the economy in some way.

I do agree treasure chests are really crap, need to balance them, and some others monsters also, need a bost.

[imported_Hate]

The problem with this is that you wouldn't know the exact damage value of the fs/light of your opponent (assuming you're the one with worse armor)... And as you know, knowing that is extremely important in duels.
Don't get me wrong, I'm for this... But don't mess with the 1v1's plz.

I agree with Pink Dragon when it comes to that.

There must be better ways to make armors a part of ganking than making players take more damage from spells if they wear a less good armor. I can only imagine how messed up the ganking would be after that.

For example, if some guy would wear a less good armor than somebody else then that person would most likely take more than 50 damage from a flamestrike, and then 2 fs perfectly timed would kill him in a second, without him having any chance to defend himself. I have seen this at other shards were flamestrike did 50+ damage, and it was not fun. Plus it would not "fix the problem" that players are having with them dieing too easy from spells either, it would probably make players die even easier from spells.

The damage increase would not be huge, actually it would be very small, but still enough to warrant a good gear. PvP would be different against people with a worse gear

Maka what do you mean? If two people wear armor with 30 AR and duel each other then it'll be the same as it is now? If two people both wear an armor with 50 AR and duel each other then it will be the same as it is now? But if one person has 50 armor and the other one has 30 armor then the guy with 30 armor will be hit harder from spells by the guy with 50 armor, but only same as it is now from some guy who is also attacking him but whose wearing 30 armor himself?

No matter how I think about it I think that it would be "better" than it is now though. I may be a little bit stuck in my old ways but that would at least make me not want to gank at all unless I'm wearing an armor with 50AR everytime while ganking, to make sure that nobody can come in with good armor and gank me with 2 perfect timed fs causing more than 50 dmg each.

I am all for giving armored people advantages tho, like for example the thing we did with energy bolts (so that it did more dmg towards naked people), I am also all for finding other good ways to make SOME spells be really strong against naked people, which will FORCE people to use armor in gank unless they want to be killed by the powerful "magic arrow" or whichever spell we decide to make super-strong vs naked people. But I am not for this suggestion I'm afraid, it would ruin the fun for me and I am sure it would ruin a lot of fun for a lot of other players as well.

[SIZE="4"]So my suggestion is:[/SIZE]
Make some spells (which are not the most common ones in duels) rly strong vs naked people, to force naked people to wear armor or get a big disadvantage in ganking. That would make people wear armor to avoid getting killed by spells damaging as hard as flamestrikes but taking only 20 mana or something (and no life from yourself). An idea would be to boost energy bolts even further vs naked people (or people wearing crap armor), and remove the life-reduction that is does to the owner of it when dclicked. What do you guys think?

Regards,
Hate

[imported_LudaKrishna]

Another problem is someone with an exceptional set vs a non exceptional set..I don't know I just don't see your idea working too good maka, I mean I understand its to promote armors but still...

Perhaps have an armor than makes you run a little bit faster? Not sure how you can promote armors....However I'm more on Hate's side with this, (Don't Explosion/E-bolts) already do insanley amounts of damage to naked people?

[imported_MadMan]

I like the idea of doing something to enforce armors in gank but.. if it was as you said maka then id prefer ganking like now naked.

I would always be wearing Atleast 55ar while ganking just to make sure no one outdmges me.

I say go with something like hate said make some spells more damaging to a naked player. its similar to your suggestion

[imported_Kitiara]

Any idea to solve the economy problem that is submerged the Server?
All I read are solutions to pvp problem, but barely about economy.

Everything is related.

More money more people buying Things. More people using better equips, etc..
More money changing hands.

[maka]

First of all, remember that these values are just example values. If I sat down and thought a bit about it they would look a lot different. I just need something to explain my idea so I'll go with the ones I've posted earlier and the ones below.

Yet again, they are not perfect, I'm just trying to explain my train of thought with them

Maka what do you mean? If two people wear armor with 30 AR and duel each other then it'll be the same as it is now? If two people both wear an armor with 50 AR and duel each other then it will be the same as it is now? But if one person has 50 armor and the other one has 30 armor then the guy with 30 armor will be hit harder from spells by the guy with 50 armor, but only same as it is now from some guy who is also attacking him but whose wearing 30 armor himself?

That is exactly what I mean. Here are some scenario examples of how damage bonus could be distributed:
Guy1 (30ar) vs Guy2 (43ar): +1 light for guy2
Guy1 (20ar) vs Guy2 (43ar): +2 light, +1 fs for guy2
Guy1 (43ar) vs Guy2 (28ar): +1 light, +1 fs for guy1
Guy1 (53ar) vs Guy2 (43ar): +1 light for guy1
Guy1 (53ar) vs Guy2 (28ar): +2 light, +3 fs for guy1
Guy1 (0ar) vs Guy2 (37ar): +3 light, +4 fs for guy2
Guy1 (0ar) vs Guy2 (28ar): +2 light, +3 fs for guy2
Guy1 (53ar) vs Guy2 (45ar): Nothing
Guy1 (28ar) vs Guy2 (33ar): Nothing
Guy1 (33ar) vs Guy2 (40ar): Nothing

Essentially a guy in plate will be able to fight up to valorite (37ar) without taking any bonus damage. If someone whips out more than valorite fighting a guy in plate, I think he deserves one more damage on his light..

This fix would also make it so that an armor higher than Sandrock and Mytheril (43ar) would have to be used as tour gear, if you do not want to recieve any bonus damage from extreme that is.

I understand that naked ganking will be very hard, while pretty much changing nothing in a regular duel. It would also change "free world PvP" a little bit, but not much I think. According to me this would would not change PvP at all, just add a "requirement" for it, and that requirement is not really a MUST either. The damages are low so skill is still the biggest factor in the equation.

[SIZE="4"]So my suggestion is:[/SIZE]
Make some spells (which are not the most common ones in duels) rly strong vs naked people, to force naked people to wear armor or get a big disadvantage in ganking. That would make people wear armor to avoid getting killed by spells damaging as hard as flamestrikes but taking only 20 mana or something (and no life from yourself). An idea would be to boost energy bolts even further vs naked people (or people wearing crap armor), and remove the life-reduction that is does to the owner of it when dclicked. What do you guys think?

I don't think that is a good idea. Reason to why is cause we know that you can die in a group fight in less than 5 secs. There, time is possibly even more important than a 1v1, so to make spells good and usable vs naked, they would still need to make almost FS damage. If they don't make FS damage, the naked guys will fs the EBers, kill them before they run out of mana. You'll see the naked guys victorious again. If we make it as good as FS then naked people would still have an equal chance on killing the geared so the only thing left to do would be to increase the damage over 46. That I do how ever think would be imbalanced.

The problem with this is that you wouldn't know the exact damage value of the fs/light of your opponent (assuming you're the one with worse armor)... And as you know, knowing that is extremely important in duels.
Don't get me wrong, I'm for this... But don't mess with the 1v1's plz.

You are right and I agree, I did how ever not predict it to be a problem. The way I reasoned was that most good people in a 1v1 have similar gear, and if they don't have similar gear, the armor difference is rarely 10 AR. That essentially means that almost everyone in a 1v1 will be fighting on equal grounds, which in this case is the XUO/INX PvP.

Even if it isn't on equal grounds I still don't predict a problem. You will be able to see on what armor he has, and that way, you'll also figure out the armor difference. Even if you don't, you'll see the first time he is casting his spell.

The idea is that this is only supposed to be super dangerous if armor difference is really high, if its somewhat low the idea is more of a nuisance than immediate danger.

I do not even see this to be a problem in cash stones. I know a lot of people use max gear there, but still, fighting someone with a max gear there you should still be able to find one of the 6 minable armors that actually would remove the damage bonus from you opponent. If you don't, you have parts. If you don't have parts then you'll just have to live with a slight damage increase.

Anyways, that is essentially the idea that I'm thinking of. Sorry for hijacking this post, but I think this would fix quite a lot of the requests from certain players. I also think this is a general shard improvement, as I do think gear should be a part of the server, just not a dominating one.

I would always be wearing Atleast 55ar while ganking just to make sure no one outdmges me.

Wearing a mytheril would make sure that yo only got damaged for people with 53 ar or above. The damage bonus you would get would be so small that I do not think it would warrant anyone to use gear higher than 43AR in ganks (besides really rich people).

Any idea to solve the economy problem that is submerged the Server?

I think that what I'm talking about would boost the economy a lot as it would encourage the use of gear, both in duel stones, regular events, free world PvP and ganking.

That to me sounds like a good thing for economy and PvP Sadly I don't have much more to comment on yet as I do not play

[imported_Kitiara]

1º Maka the problem in economy is there isn't much money almost i see that.

Prices are high and there isn't much money to spend.

2º What happens with shields and protection spell?

Invul shield + protection = 36 armor.

what happens with that?

full invul set + invul shield + protection = 94 armor I think...
Then for having any bonus we will have to have more than 36 armor than the opponent? (otherwise 2handed weapons will be nerfed)

[imported_p!nk dr@g0n]

an essay

As Kitiara mentioned, you have shields... You have Protection spell... You have exceptional parts (xtreme armor can give up to 60 if all parts are exceptional)... So you can practically never know what ar your opponent has. And watching your health to see what damage the first fs/light does is not something anyone would like to do, not to mention it's really hard to remember both numbers (before and after fs/light) AND do the subtraction WHILE still dueling and remembering to heal lol.

There's so many things wrong with the suggestion the way it looks atm (and I don't mean the specific numbers coz I know you said it's just an example)...

[imported_Silverwolf]

I believe that Maka's idea can go somewhere...

As you guys mentioned about shields and invul armor, thats not a huge deal either... it's simple really... just cap "the bonus" damage from ar at a certain point... like once you have that43+ ar, no matter what the other guy is using, (even if we had 100 AR) the bonus damage will no longer be in effect anymore, itll b like normal...

the main idea with this suggestion from maka is to make sure armors come into play and are a "requirement" upto a certain AR rating.

So that clears up the exceptional parts, protection and invul....

and if protection affects the suggestion, we can just disable it... and if you dont want to disable it, somehow script it so its based on armor AR and not spells...

seems like a good quick fix to me.