[imported_Fable]

Well, I didn't test it but I saw what it did to somebody who was wearing a pretty good armor.

Anyways, we won't be "editing anything" without first testing it a lot at the test server. But judging from my first view on it I'd say that it did feel a bit overpowered in my opinion.

Hiroshima, you don't have to worry tho, even if we balance it a bit more for PvP it shouldn't change the damage it does to monsters, so you can still use it for hunting or whatever you use it for. However if you do in fact use it for PvP then it may affect you a little if we change it, but it would still be for the good of the shard.

I'm not saying that anything WILL change yet tho, but we will test them, and if they do hit as hard as it looked like, then we may have to balance them.

If treallypoot just had a whole lot of "lucky hits" on tech, then I guess it won't have to change. We will see when that time comes.

Regards,
Hate

why is it for the good of the shard? i mean just because max bardiche was the best weapon on xuo, doesn't mean it has to be best everywhere. i widow needs bolts to shoot, ammo runs out sooner or later. there is nowhere in a rule stated which wep has to be the best. we could make battle axe best if you wanted to.

[imported_Hate]

why is it for the good of the shard? i mean just because max bardiche was the best weapon on xuo, doesn't mean it has to be best everywhere. i widow needs bolts to shoot, ammo runs out sooner or later. there is nowhere in a rule stated which wep has to be the best. we could make battle axe best if you wanted to.

The whole purpose of balancing items is that no weapon should be "the best one". No weapon should be overpowered. No weapon should be underpowered. Every weapon should have its advantages and disadvantages. Sure, the black widow might have one disadvantage (it requires bolts..) but that does not make up for the damage it makes, and the fact that it can hit you all the time because it is impossible to run away from in the 1vs1 stone-arenas.

So once again, we are not trying to make a sup acc vanq bardiche "the best weapon", and lower the damage of all other weapons to make that happen. We are trying to balance weapons so that no weapon is overpowered. I think you played a little at Makas XUO, yes? Remember how people were using different weapons there? Maka often used a quarter staff, Method used a warfork, Smeagol and Masteron used the halberd, a couple used the short spear, and kryss for naked fights. Yes, some people did use the bardiche back then as well, but it was not "overpowered", it was balanced. The bardiche was good for one style of pvp, and so was all the other weapons, that is why they were all used in a balanced way.

The reason so many people use bardiches here is because of that it is balanced, and hits good, the problem is that a lot of other weapons are not balanced yet and does either hit too hard or too soft. That is what we will try to fix so that it can be like XUO was before, when all weapons were used in a balanced way. So don't worry, we won't make everybody use bardiches again, quite the oposite actually, we want people to use ALL weapons, but in a balanced way.

Regards,
Hate

[imported_Fable]

The whole purpose of balancing items is that no weapon should be "the best one". No weapon should be overpowered. No weapon should be underpowered. Every weapon should have its advantages and disadvantages. Sure, the black widow might have one disadvantage (it requires bolts..) but that does not make up for the damage it makes, and the fact that it can hit you all the time because it is impossible to run away from in the 1vs1 stone-arenas.

So once again, we are not trying to make a sup acc vanq bardiche "the best weapon", and lower the damage of all other weapons to make that happen. We are trying to balance weapons so that no weapon is overpowered. I think you played a little at Makas XUO, yes? Remember how people were using different weapons there? Maka often used a quarter staff, Method used a warfork, Smeagol and Masteron used the halberd, a couple used the short spear, and kryss for naked fights. Yes, some people did use the bardiche back then as well, but it was not "overpowered", it was balanced. The bardiche was good for one style of pvp, and so was all the other weapons, that is why they were all used in a balanced way.

The reason so many people use bardiches here is because of that it is balanced, and hits good, the problem is that a lot of other weapons are not balanced yet and does either hit too hard or too soft. That is what we will try to fix so that it can be like XUO was before, when all weapons were used in a balanced way. So don't worry, we won't make everybody use bardiches again, quite the oposite actually, we want people to use ALL weapons, but in a balanced way.

Regards,
Hate

yeah i know hate, but if you read smokes and some others post, they make it sound like bardiche should be the supreme weapon sent from god or something. i agree that there should be a weapon better than other, but i disagree in it having to much advantage. and on makas xuo i used a quarter/gnarled staff or battle axe :lol:

[smoke]

bardiche was always good on every shard and everyone used it and always wanted vanq bards please tell me that i'm wrong. sure there were others but the bard was the best

[imported_Hate]

yeah i know hate, but if you read smokes and some others post, they make it sound like bardiche should be the supreme weapon sent from god or something. i agree that there should be a weapon better than other, but i disagree in it having to much advantage. and on makas xuo i used a quarter/gnarled staff or battle axe :lol:

It is all a matter of what you prefer. Most people like the bardiche cause it has a good damage output, a nice delay between swings, and looks cool. I personally like the bardiche a lot too, but it is not "suppose" to be better than other weapons, it is suppose to be just as good but have a lil difference that makes people prefer that above something else.

One weakness of bardiches is that it is a 2 hand weapon, so u cant have a shield, there for you get hit a lot harder while wearing one. Another weakness is that it isn't as "fast" as for example a battle axe and some other faster 2 hand weapons, so if you fight somebody whose using a battle axe you'll most likely get hit before he gets hit, and perhaps have to heal which will make him be able to hit u another time before u can finally hit him back.

So bardiche vs battle axe:
bardiche = more damage, less speed.
battle axe = less damage, more speed.

So some people would argue that the battle axe is better, because they want to hit more and with decent damage, rather than harder but less often. Others would argue that the bardiche is better because they want to hit hard and with a decent speed. Who is right? It is all a matter of taste. Sure the bardiche is a very good weapon, but when all weapons were balanced at Makas XUO I personally considered both the staff that maka used and the battle axe that I used most of the time on my main character to be just as good, just different.

Regards,
Hate

[imported_Fable]

this is how it should be. not that the bardiche is superior. even though its preferred. i mean just because the majority prefer a battle axe doesnt mean it has to be the superior. but they should be competitive to each other

[Eighty Swords]

I have to agree with smoke that everyone always wanted a sup vanq bardiche because it did the most damage of all the weapons. But as Hate said on Maka's XUO people also used war forks, battle axes, halberds, q-staffs, and short spears. At least those are the popular ones I remember. I don't remember people using hammers that much. Each of these weapons had tiny advantages over the other like slightly faster but slightly less damage, or about half the damage but twice the speed, etc...

My point is that each weapon was only marginally better then the others. None of them was the clear cut best weapon that everybody agreed on and used 24/7.

[imported_Cytrick]

I think that more balanced weapons would be nice. On IN1 PvP you had the HF and SoV which were decent hitting swords, so they were decently fast and you could use a sheild, but the Hells Hallys hit hard but no sheild and a little less speed, some people even used vanq hallys and bards but crafted weapons were just easier to get and made pvp affordable to everyone and people used these weapons ALL the time in pvp outside of trounys and duels. Hells hallys went for about 25k and HFs and SoVs went for about 100k(last i remember) so anyone could afford them. Over 300-900k you pay for the good pvp weapons here. It would be nice if we had more than 3 weapons that were really worth a damn for pvp and had more use of decent weapons and armor in pvp outside loot safe pvp. Makes things a little more interesting, although i don't know if this style pvp would really work well for that considering 2-3 guys with nothing but a weapon and scrolls can gank a guy with decent armor and a weapon even if that guy is good at pvp, on IN that was pretty well impossible.

[Eighty Swords]

considering 2-3 guys with nothing but a weapon and scrolls can gank a guy with decent armor and a weapon even if that guy is good at pvp, on IN that was pretty well impossible.

What I like about this style of pvp over the impression you give me of IN1 style pvp is that here it's not guaranteed that the guy with the best items wins. Maka fought naked a lot back on XUO and often beat decent and even good pvpers that were in full tour gear. That's a show of skill, not a show of who has the best stuff.

[imported_Cytrick]

What I like about this style of pvp over the impression you give me of IN1 style pvp is that here it's not guaranteed that the guy with the best items wins. Maka fought naked a lot back on XUO and often beat decent and even good pvpers that were in full tour gear. That's a show of skill, not a show of who has the best stuff.

On IN1 you could pvp in bloodrock and a hell hally(15-25k) and do just fine, even with lesser gear but it made it interesting when guys ran around in daemon steel and hfs/sovs with order/chaos sheild and if you were good you had a chance to kill him and actually get decent stuff off him over a suit of blood rock or less which any gm bs had plenty of and isn't really worth junk. Wouldn't you like to have a really pvp battle outside of duel/trouny and have a chance to get 200-300k in loot. Like i said once in a post, a really good PvPer on IN(named Keirth) walked around and pvped in a saph suit, hf and pure black mustang over 600k in items and he did this ALL the time. That makes things interesting

[imported_Fury]

You need to make the black widow unusable in pvp really it stinks, all you do is heal heal heal vs a bw its lame!

[imported_LudaKrishna]

it should be noted even gangbang had a hard time vs a black widow in the finals of a 1 vs 1 reg tourney. these bows should do less dmg to players as the delay to hit is very fast.