[Ziggy Stardust]

Hi.

The greater healing scrolls cost almost no mana to cast and are super-fast. That means that anybody who knows how to press an healing macro and also knows how to use a greater healing potion can pretty much survive ANY attack in a 1vs1 duel at this point.

I duelled a couple of people today in a 1vs1 tourney. I actually hit them down to below 20 health left, and then casted about 4-5 flamestrikes in a row, plus a couple of lightning, and it was still no problem for them to stay alive. Sure I was very lagged but so were they, it was still way too easy, even if I wouldn't have been lagged it would have been easy to stay alive.

The greater heal scroll heals you for 34 health and costs 6 mana to cast. The flamestrike scroll damages you for 38 damage and costs 25 mana to cast. So if you combine a greater healing potion and these scrolls you are pretty much impossible to kill if you ask me. Setting the mana cost on these scrolls to like 30+ mana would make them a "life safer" for emergancies and not something that you can use everytime you get hit, and it would stop every duel from ending up in naked duel where one person wins because he manages to melee the other guy to death with a few lucky high damage hits. That is my suggestion.

[Eru]

From the latest SVN updates (not committed yet):

Made some minor timing changes to spells and scrolls
Greater heal scrolls now heal 3 less hp
...other things...

Not sure how helpful that will be, but it's a start.

[Taran]

Yeah we are aware of the issue and will balance it out bit by bit. We don't want to make any drastic changes right away though, hence the small changes this time.

But look on the bright side, more players might have the guts to go out and PvP and learn how to fight now when it's pretty easy to survive

[Ziggy Stardust]

From the latest SVN updates (not committed yet):

Made some minor timing changes to spells and scrolls
Greater heal scrolls now heal 3 less hp
...other things...

Not sure how helpful that will be, but it's a start.

With 3 hp less heal on greater heal scrolls people will just mix them with normal heals which gives like 42 hp, and still be able to survive way too easy, if they combine it with a greater heal potion. You are still going to have to hit the player down to below 20 health and it will still be very hard to kill somebody.

I respect that you used the faster greater heal scrolls at old IN and are trying to perserve that version of the PvP, but I'm just saying that it is way better to up the mana cost for greater heal scrolls A LOT so that they are only used as life safers, rather than as a compliment to real greater heal spell but with the mana cost of a normal "heal" pretty much, but that gives way more health :p

Since you also have total manas it is still going to be hard to kill somebody even if they would cost 30 mana, but at least then it would give the players who actually manages to drain their enemies below 30 mana a better chance, and hopefully at least some duels wouldn't go to naked :/

Yeah we are aware of the issue and will balance it out bit by bit. We don't want to make any drastic changes right away though, hence the small changes this time.

But look on the bright side, more players might have the guts to go out and PvP and learn how to fight now when it's pretty easy to survive

Hehe, well you do what you think is right, small changes can be good too, but I don't believe in lowering the greater heal scroll health that it gives to fix this problem, and I certainly don't believe in the fact that greater heal scrolls costs 6 mana (!) to cast, that is insane, do you realize how hard it will be to drain somebody of enough mana not to be able to heal themselves when it costs 6 mana? :/

Anyway, I'm just giving suggestions, do what you feel is right.

[Khal Drogo]

Sorry to say.. but I agree with Ziggy. The pvp at the moment is kind of stupid in my opinion.. unless you are naked with the threat of dying from a wep.. you can pretty much survive any 1v1 attack from low health.

My suggestion to fix this issue and to make pvp more challenging is:

Make greater heal scrolls cost ALOT more mana then it currently does... If you don't have threat from loosing mana while using a gh scroll.. then you can excessively use it.. It's pvpers who can use the normal greater heal spell (even though it takes longer to cast) because it cost alot less mana.. So good timing and skill comes into it..

What you think?

Khal

[Taran]

I agree that GH scrolls should consume more mana and unless Shade completely disagrees I would like to fix that before next restart.

[Paulie]

Magic Reflect Scrolls cast time should be longer also. Even with the change in GH scrolls people will just spam MR scrolls even more then they already do(khal). IF you can find the perfect balance between the two then I think we will have a perfect mage system.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Magic Reflect Scrolls cast time should be longer also. Even with the change in GH scrolls people will just spam MR scrolls even more then they already do(khal). IF you can find the perfect balance between the two then I think we will have a perfect mage system.

Magic Reflect scrolls cost 7 mana and is pretty much as fast as a greater heal scroll, so yes, we should make the magic reflect scrolls cost way more mana as well (~ 25-30 mana). They are also a type of scroll that you should use with very nice timing at the right time, to turn the fight around, not something you should spam everytime somebody throws a flamestrike at you. So yes, I think that we need to raise the mana cost on them as well.

[Paulie]

I dont think mana cost on them is the problem, it can be upped a little. Its more of the speed of them then anything. Pinkorb and I were talking on MSN and came to the conculsion they should be the same as FS or FS scroll i cant remember exactly. So they still can be useful in a 2v1 but not ultimately the deciding factor. Cause as it stands the "pro" Pvpers can survive a very long time in a 2v1 even a 3v1. Cause I have done it when fighting with WoP.(not saying i am a pro)

[Ziggy Stardust]

I dont think mana cost on them is the problem, it can be upped a little. Its more of the speed of them then anything. Pinkorb and I were talking on MSN and came to the conculsion they should be the same as FS or FS scroll i cant remember exactly. So they still can be useful in a 2v1 but not ultimately the deciding factor. Cause as it stands the "pro" Pvpers can survive a very long time in a 2v1 even a 3v1. Cause I have done it when fighting with WoP.(not saying i am a pro)

Yes, I also think that magic reflection scrolls should have the same cast time as a flamestrike scroll, so you have to time it perfectly to get a flamestrike reflected back at the opponent, at least that's how I want it to be. Plus big mana cost because that is an issue, you may not see it now but when people realize that mana cost on them is less than a greater heal you will see players abuse them A LOT, both in ganking and in 1vs1. To me reflect scrolls AND greater healing scrolls should be something that requires planning and tactics, and if you use it too much you'll be out of mana, because when you're able to use them too much it's too easy to stay alive. :/

Think about it, everytime somebody is dumping you with flamestrike scroll attacks you just start reflect scrolling and the whole attack will fail. Sure he could magic arrow the reflects (or something similar) and continue the dump, but since flamestrike scrolls cost a lot more mana than the reflect scrolls it will most likely fail sooner or later. :/

[Paulie]

Just came to me you up the mana cost on the GH scrolls but leave the heal amount the same as is now. 3 hp isnt much difference but a upping the mana cost +10 is. since i know alot of people with the current system are straight str dexers. with More mana cost things will switch up a little bit and wont see that guy running around with 120 str 120 dex recking havoc on you since you cant swing as fast as him.

[Perfect]

If this server is to be called like IN,, then you should not change the cast time to something different. Right now I feel like the cast times are already not sphere like. If you go on a 51a server and time your lights and fses and ghs and stuff they are much quicker than on here for some reason. Now that maybe attributed to the lag at the arena but I'm hoping a staff could comment on the actual casting times (I have yet to get an unequivocal response). I definitely think GH scroll needs more mana to be used and same goes for Mage reflection. Basically MR, FS, and GH spell should all have the same cast time for the pvp to take skill. Also I think that these changes should be made quickly. All these tourneys are getting impossibly long unless we can go naked which is not always an option if a GM isn't around.