[imported_BACoustic]

I also believe full transfers should not have been made, but I really wont go there as I dont think anything can be done about that. Also, I think the skill gain for crafts are fine being slow.
However, for pvp, especially XUO pvp which we do have here... magery and healing are essential and should therefor gain faster than what I have been experiencing. I can only macro at night, maybe about 6-8 hours. Cant do it during the day. I guess thats my problem, but I just want to say I am here for the most part for the pvp which I had experienced on the XUO servers of the past and it looks like only being able to macro 6-8 hours a day is going to take more than a month to get me to where I want to be to pvp. And during that entire month, I will not be playing... just macroing... not really doing anything for the shard. Why cant just magery and healing skill gain be increased, if nothing else, just to help us that want to actually play within a week or two. Like I said, other skills, such as crafting, should take a long time, but the combats used in XUO pvp need to be much much faster(magery and healing especially).

By the way... I havent really seen a solid argument against raising gain rates for magery and healing yet(all I see is people saying "It is fast enough", but Why is it fast enough? Why do you think that?). If there is one please direct me to it.

+1
/cheer

...it looks like only being able to macro 6-8 hours a day is going to take more than a month to get me to where I want to be to pvp. And during that entire month, I will not be playing... just macroing... not really doing anything for the shard...

In that months time, the Vets will be walking around with Vanqs to spare, and probably more money than they know what to do with. So by the time we do "catch up" we are still behind, IMO.

BACoustic

[imported_Elcid]

Ok. When you say this do you mean the rate of the skillgain as was intended, which is the ability to reach GM for a combat skill in one day... As was said INGAME by GM's... OR do you mean how it is right now, which is 1 combat skill taking about three days to macro, and skills like healing somewhere in the vicinity of 25 days of straight macroing to GM? It's a big difference, so please be more specific.

Actually only about 10 have posted on the forums, which the vast majority is made up of Vets, who ironically like yourself, don't need to concern yourself which such things. Subsequently, a fewer amount (zero?) think that the skill gain is too fast. Also, I have heard many players complaining in IRC, and even MORE players in-game.

See heres your problem, you assume all of the vets have GM all fighting skills and GM all crafts... i played INR since it started without taking a break... i dont have a single Gm fighting skill... and u dont hear me on here whining about gains.... i just get on with it and do it... and seriously the skill gains are pretty good.

Nothing. We will still earn them, just waste less of everyone's time, electricity, and bandwidth as our computers sit there almost idly running loops of repetitious macros.

Now your pulling the save the environment string... ill give you points for creativity as it seriously did make me laugh. :p

Spoken like a true Jackass, sir. If it doesn't concern you, it must not be important. Or perhaps it does concern you that newer players will have a fair chance to get themselves into the game, and subsequently own you faster? Also, on the subject of only a small % of the players feel the skillgain is too slow: I would be very interested to see the results of the new players (just the new players) being polled for what they feel of the skill gain.

Theres no need for name calling!

All I ask is that the skillgain is set to the amount it is supposed to be, as stated by the GM's.

It may sound like something simple, but as you should be able to see in bold writing its "IN X BETA 3" this is where all the bugs get sorted, not just bugs in the systems but the general way things work ie skill gain, loot drops etc. At the moment there is alot to get through so let them get through it.

Im not saying "shutup" im just saying youve made your point now give them a chance to look into/discuss it.

[maka]

I am and will be doing some testing with the skill gains. Personally I think that they are fine, but the actually number in hours that it takes can sometime differ from the real "experience" in game. I do not think that we will change skill gain a lot, we have already dome some major changes, but there will surely be some tweaks.

[imported_Rexal]

I am and will be doing some testing with the skill gains. Personally I think that they are fine, but the actually number in hours that it takes can sometime differ from the real "experience" in game. I do not think that we will change skill gain a lot, we have already dome some major changes, but there will surely be some tweaks.

Thank you. I hope at some point you will also be able to really play yourself. Good luck.

[imported_Nemo]

Ive noticed that mining skill gain is right on target where it needs to be. IT feels like the first IN. As well as skills like stealth, hide, anatomy, spirit speak, evaluate intelligence, all seem to be correctly adjusted for gameplay. I've been macroing all but mining for 4 days now on and off, and I am nearly gm on them all. In between macroing, I mine, got about 2500 iron ingots. But thats a miners perspective training mostly unpopular skills.

Mining is RIGHT where it needs to be be.

[imported_Lindenwood]

1) The number of people with LOTS of GMed skills that got transferred is FAR less than what everyone assumes. There are more like 30 people that fit your description; nowhere near "most" of the shard. In fact, most of the "vets" would benefit from your easier skill gain, but we still prefer it to be a bit more of a challenge, rather than everyone have a 2000 point skill set in a week.

2) 90% of the "problems" you are having would be NO different if you joined another shard later. This has been stated over and over, but you will not even acknowledge it.

3) Crafting (especially the skills that make useable items) is hardly done to make money. It is 90% done for the usability of the skill (like making armor / weapons, potions, bows, etc). Not so you can go sell a bunch of full suits of armor for tons of money. On IN1, Id bet 1/3 to 1/2 of the shard had GMed blacksmithy at one point, and it was still a very useful skill to have. 99% of the time, people gathered all the RESOURCES for an item themselves (whether by mining / hunting, or just buying the resources), and THEN had the item made. I VERY rarely ever saw weapons or armor being bought / sold.

4) Even IF crafting was actually a lucritive skill, nobody will have the money to blow on crafted items any time soon. Plus, the resources will be hard to come by for a while (until the newbs start producing them), so not much is actually going to be made, except for show. The best armor Ive seen so far was somebody sitting in an old copper suit at the bank.

5) Again, because of the relatively small amount of "vets" that have all these GMed skills that you talk about, there won't be much PvP going on anyways until you "M4d PvP3rs" get going. So, just like a "new" shard, it is still waiting for the "newbs" to get in the game before the action really starts.

6) Stop acting like GM every combat skill is required for PvP. Every PKer Ive seen (EVEN the red ones) has been wearing plain iron armor, maybe with a few defense pieces, and using a regular weapon. I got ganked by two of them recently, and I thought it was amusing that when I got back to my body, they had actually left most of their normal armor with it, and replaced theirs with my defense armor. Why can't you simply just go out there and enjoy they game like them? You act like there is only ONE way to play UO, and that ONE way is YOUR WAY.

Just sit back and train your skills. None of your complaining (that IS what you are doing, whether you like it or not), is going to do any good, because it is all about thingswe already know about, things that can't be changed now, or things that are illogical. Your fears a WAAY overexaggerated, as I outlined above.

Lastly, it is also VERY true that, if anything, your constant and very aggressive complaining ("constant" in that you keep saying the same points OVER AND OVER AND OVER again, and "aggressive" because you are very insulting and condescending to everyone who makes a point that opposes your opinion), IS only desensitizing the staff. It is probably why they refuse to speak to you directly, because you refuse to even hear what your opposition has to say.

[imported_Kano]

1) The number of people with LOTS of GMed skills that got transferred is FAR less than what everyone assumes. There are more like 30 people that fit your description; nowhere near "most" of the shard. In fact, most of the "vets" would benefit from your easier skill gain, but we still prefer it to be a bit more of a challenge, rather than everyone have a 2000 point skill set in a week.

2) 90% of the "problems" you are having would be NO different if you joined another shard later. This has been stated over and over, but you will not even acknowledge it.

3) Crafting (especially the skills that make useable items) is hardly done to make money. It is 90% done for the usability of the skill (like making armor / weapons, potions, bows, etc). Not so you can go sell a bunch of full suits of armor for tons of money. On IN1, Id bet 1/3 to 1/2 of the shard had GMed blacksmithy at one point, and it was still a very useful skill to have. 99% of the time, people gathered all the RESOURCES for an item themselves (whether by mining / hunting, or just buying the resources), and THEN had the item made. I VERY rarely ever saw weapons or armor being bought / sold.

4) Even IF crafting was actually a lucritive skill, nobody will have the money to blow on crafted items any time soon. Plus, the resources will be hard to come by for a while (until the newbs start producing them), so not much is actually going to be made, except for show. The best armor Ive seen so far was somebody sitting in an old copper suit at the bank.

5) Again, because of the relatively small amount of "vets" that have all these GMed skills that you talk about, there won't be much PvP going on anyways until you "M4d PvP3rs" get going. So, just like a "new" shard, it is still waiting for the "newbs" to get in the game before the action really starts.

6) Stop acting like GM every combat skill is required for PvP. Every PKer Ive seen (EVEN the red ones) has been wearing plain iron armor, maybe with a few defense pieces, and using a regular weapon. I got ganked by two of them recently, and I thought it was amusing that when I got back to my body, they had actually left most of their normal armor with it, and replaced theirs with my defense armor. Why can't you simply just go out there and enjoy they game like them? You act like there is only ONE way to play UO, and that ONE way is YOUR WAY.

Just sit back and train your skills. None of your complaining (that IS what you are doing, whether you like it or not), is going to do any good, because it is all about thingswe already know about, things that can't be changed now, or things that are illogical. Your fears a WAAY overexaggerated, as I outlined above.

Lastly, it is also VERY true that, if anything, your constant and very aggressive complaining ("constant" in that you keep saying the same points OVER AND OVER AND OVER again, and "aggressive" because you are very insulting and condescending to everyone who makes a point that opposes your opinion), IS only desensitizing the staff. It is probably why they refuse to speak to you directly, because you refuse to even hear what your opposition has to say.

Bla bla bla man. You are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine. I think the gain is too slow, and I've said why. You on the other hand seem to reply to everyone who opposes you as (ironically you say this OVER AND OVER AND OVER) "STOP COMPLAINING, WHINERZ?!?!". So far the only benefit of why a the skill rate should be slow is that so we "Earn our skills". How the **** is leaving your computer on day, after day, after day earning skills? We're not even playing the ****in game!? It's just sitting there!!! I think the gain should be fast enough for someone who chooses not to macro 24/7, to go out and be able to actually SEE SOME SKILL gain, per hunting trip.

I mean jesus. Why does everyone want to waste everyone's time with this shit? I can totally understand having the craft skills take forever to gain, because they aren't really 100% necessary to survive outside guard protection. But I have news for you man... Come see me without GM healing and magery and I'm gonna put you down. It's that simple. Players need to be able to GM those skills WITHIN A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME, so they can actually go out and be able to defend themselves. The fact of the matter is that it is unreasonable for players to have to macro skills for a month before they can even worry about going outside guard protection and not get raped.

Also, as for why the staff refuses to speak with me directly, they actually already have, several times.

Edit: What does this mean?:

I'd really like to find the perfect balance to skillgain, but it's hard.
That's also why we need your help. Like posting your results like you have. The more factors you count in and the more accurate you are the easier it is for us to adjust the skillgain accordingly.

So thanks for your input, I'll check your results when you post them.

So there IS a reason why they're the staff and you aren't!

Maka is good enough to make a player and actually test out the gains by macroing sparring, as I had suggested. I am 100% confident as soon as he sees the actual data of the skill gain rate on skills like healing, archery, magery, whatever, that he or the other staff will make an adjustment to make it so it is what it is SUPPOSED TO BE (not excruciating.)


Btw:

6) Stop acting like GM every combat skill is required for PvP. Every PKer Ive seen (EVEN the red ones) has been wearing plain iron armor, maybe with a few defense pieces, and using a regular weapon. I got ganked by two of them recently, and I thought it was amusing that when I got back to my body, they had actually left most of their normal armor with it, and replaced theirs with my defense armor. Why can't you simply just go out there and enjoy they game like them? You act like there is only ONE way to play UO, and that ONE way is YOUR WAY.

Did they fizzle 75% of their flamestrikes? No? Did they happen to mention they didn't have GM Magery before they killed you? No? Are you just assuming they don't have any GM skills because they're in platemail? Ummmm.... Yeah that might be a flaw in your logic.

[imported_Lanfear]

"vets" would benefit from your easier skill gain, but we still prefer it to be a bit more of a challenge, rather than everyone have a 2000 point skill set in a week.



So wheres the challenge you can still just macro it no challenge in this it only takes time...

[imported_Kano]

Yeah, exactly. It's not a challenge. It's literally just waiting for the computer to be done 250,000 cycles so that the number says 100.0. I just think we have to wait too long for the inevitable.

An example would be like, waiting in line for food stamps. You need food, so you have to wait in line. It would be nice if the line wasn't 50k people long. I mean, you are still going to have to wait in line, no matter if it's 10k people or 50k people, because you need that food. Well, we need our combats, and we're willing to wait in line... Just make the line a reasonable length is all I've been asking.

[imported_Kano]

Also, I'm reasonably sure that anyone who is playing UO now, has SURELY gmed their combats in the past... So it's not like anyone is really seeing anything new by macroing up to 100 again.

Crafts are a different story, because you get to unlock new items to craft as your skill goes up... But combats... Jesus.

[imported_Rexal]

No one(except maybe 1 or 2) is going to really actually work for the combat skills... They are being done by afk macroing. Speeding up those skills just a little, to make it less time consuming for the macroers, and more fun for the non macroers, will only increase player activity and number of players as I said I believed earlier. If that is wrong please tell me how it wont.

I think most everyone agrees that the crafting should be slow, and are probably fine as is, so can we just forget about that. Lets just focus on the combats for a minute. Especially magery and healing. Whether you like it or not, these are VERY important for this style of pvp. Why delay them when no one is going to work for them either way.

[imported_Smurtle]

Hiding- 100
Stealth- 100
Magery-100
Tactics-100
Anatomy-100
Archery-100
Swords-100
Healing-100


That's 800 skill points total to PvP. You can aid res, cast, hit, etc. You can interchange combats to your preference, but I don't use mace nor fencing, so I'm not bothering with them, but even if you add those two, that would put you at a grand total of 1000. Hell, add parry and alchemy and inscription. You're still at what..1300?

Wow, that's pretty far away from 2000. 7 skills away. What exactly else do you need to PvP?? 2000 skills seems like a harsh, overstated estimate.

OH I know why. You're looking at it completely from your prospective. Of course, how silly of me to assume. You probably need fishing before you can go out into the UO world.

800 skills is all you need to go out, naked, drop a fellow or two, loot his supplies, and then continue to use his supplies. Talk about transfer of goods!

2000 is a bullshit estimate and you should be ashamed.