[imported_Kano]

After playing on this shard for >48 hours as well as reading this:

Im not the best person to setup an argument for this, but atleast try understand my point of view...

i understand, u made it possible for ppl to move their characters to increase the amount of players playinghere, but what about the ones who doesnt, caus of economic shit with 500gp at start ur force to do what...? macro 100 stats and go kill some shitty zombies with ur bardiche, summon a blade spirit and wait for it to kill some gargyle?

And no, i dont care about "tricks" or "ways to do it that way or bla bla bla", when u start a new char from zero, economics are very important, simply because this isnt ***** opiate anymore, where y could macro almost any skill possible without even wasting regeants, but who the **** realy cared? IT was all about pvp anyways.

Ya im sure there are plenty of tricks to do, but for ppl who got their chars moved, i bet had a realy "nice" start, and for the "new" once, we get shitty 500gp to invest in what?
I refuse to make a tailor char who stands at the tailor macroing for cash, caus this isnt why i got back to UO.
Atleast give us 10k-15k gold per account, that would be enough for a gang of players to buy a house, invest in raising skills such as magery and what not. Dont make this into some shitty WoW-wannabe game where u waste 90% of ur time on getting materials for X, then spend 10% of the time acctualy pvping, caus we all know, this is a pvp game.

If no this, we should had atleast started with 2x65% skills(TRY SUMMONING ENERGY VORTEX @ 50% MAGERY), maybe its to late now, maybe its not, but i know it can be fixed!

I'd have to agree with Puck.

Most (all) of you do not know me yet, but you will. This server looks great so far. Great playerbase, great staff (from what I've seen), good stability even though it's still beta, and an apparent willingness from the staff to appease its playerbase.

However, I think that transferring skills/money from previous characters has already semi-butchered the economy. Players starting with GM crafts have a huge advantage over those who had to make new characters. Yes they "earned it" in the past, but honestly, it was under different circumstances. This is a new shard, and I think that the vets should have been awarded a "Less than GM" amount, of the skills that they had on their previous shard, to make all players put in atleast some work before achieving ultimate-char-status.

Well anyway, it's too late for that. I can tell you that since my friends and I have joined, we have been macroing for 80%+ the time since the shard launched. As of right now my swordsmanship is 82.3, healing at 65.9, tactics 66.1 and parry is 63.8. IMO This is a good gain rate for combatish skills.
However, I tried macroing magery, but abandoned the idea swiftly. I know this is a small sample, but it's just an example: I went from 50.0 to 50.4 by casting ~90 night sights. Each night sight cost 10g worth of regs. 90casts(10g) = 900g for .4 points or 2250g for one point until you get to 60, where gains get exponentially tougher. Some quick calculations lead me to believe that it will take (~22.5k to get to 60.0 skill, ~33k to get to 70.0, another ~45k to get to 80 etc. etc.) a daunting amount of $ worth of regs to GM magery, as well as several FULL days of macroing. IMO this is a bit too much for one of the most pivitol skills in pvp. Since new players started with only 500g, and no crafting skills or anything, we are in even worse shape.

This would not be a disaster if everyone on the shard had started on a level playing field, but this is not the case. It is impossible for new characters to catch up with the vets, since we got the worst of all worlds. No money (not that big deal), no skills, skills being expensive to raise, slow rates of raising skills, and no way to really have a good income, since our skills are so low. This creates an Infinitely growing gap between the vets and the noobs.

Let me guess... Reply = Wow Kano, we just met you and you're already whining? Yes it is true. But I am not whining because I am lazy and do not want to work for a good char. I believe that EVERYONE should have to work for a good char (on THIS shard, not a previous one), but since this is not the case, we should be given an opportunity to get to that level semi-quickly. I truly believe it is for the good of the shard, both for vets and noobs.

If you do not believe me, think to the future. Will INX continue to grow or even maintain it's current high playerbase, if month old chars without enough magery to recall away or even cast Greater Heal without fizzling are getting slaughtered by vets with newbied spellbooks, Vanq weaps and rare armors which were all but handed to them? What happens then? The noobs have to spend a bunch of time putting together another spellbook (huge pain), so that they can cast their miniscule amount of spells that work infrequently at best? Now, during the time it takes them to mine ingots to afford money for a spellbook that the vets already have permanently, the vets are off killing more noobs without a chance to defend themselves. The gab continually grows. That was a long run-on sentence, but I think my point is valid: give the new players a chance to catch up to the vets.

So what is a solution? One solution would be to set all vets GM skills to <85 or so. My foresight leads me to believe that the result of this would be something like vets: "lol cya", so that is probably not the best solution.

Another solution would be to lower the cost of regs, and raise the gain rate on magery, so that new players would be able to not only GM magery within a couple days of hardcore macroing, but AFFORD to GM magery within a couple days of hardcore macroing. This seems like a reasonable solution. The staff has already done a wonderful job of changing the rate to what they see fit, but as a player I feel it's my job to report to the devs my take on how my characters skill development is going. Please post replies, because the staff will nothing unless they feel the need to.

Thx for reading,
Kan0

[imported_Tabion]

Very nice post to read and I honestly agree with parts of your post even though I have 3653.1 skill points and rising.
I don't see anything happening about the majority of this, though I am sure more tweaks will be made to skill gains as data is collected. However, may I suggest that you try casting poison instead of night sight. This only takes nightshade and even though it takes a little more mana, it is more cost efficient.
I seriously don't find your post the least bit whiny at all. Discussing the economy of the shard is important and always needs to be taken into consideration. Though there are some huge problems with this. About half of the shard does not care about the economy and just wants their pockets filled with gold, banks filled with vanq weps, and scrolls.
You are most likely right about some people thinking you are complaining or about people disagreeing with a need for a stable economy. The thing is though, where will the line be drawn? Everyone will complain, threaten to leave, and argue indefinitely if skills were to be dropped (even a little) or gold was to be wiped even. Though I support the fact that something should be done, I think it is too late.

[maka]

I like your idea about lowering the costs in the begging, but that leads to a different problem, what happens when you are a vet?

[imported_Shadok]

about the magery gain i can calm you down, i bought 1800 pices of soulphous ashes (not that expensive, with your combat skill and some orc hunting you can get the money for that in a houer or two)
But with those regs i casted magic arrow on my self, gained a littel healing but a whole 2,5% in magery and my magery is in the mid 80's. And it don't take that long to cast 1800 magic arrows.
so no it's deffently not impossible to GM magery from scratch.
It won't cost a shit load of money, but still a reasonable ammount
It won't take months upon months

[imported_Elcid]

Alot of the vets as ive noticed have been quite generous to new players.... ive been giving llamas and whatever i can spare to whoever looks like they need it.

Once a few guilds get up and running as well there is even more help for you with them.

And im not saying "deal with it" i agree with your post but like u said what done is done im just offering some help

[imported_rainfall]

There is meny meny meny shards to get pvp skils easy and there is not good economy or ground for rp.

I think when is harder to get skills more better guilds forming , you dont have to be vet to pvp ... 6 noobs can do much damage for vets ^^

i didint have to ever makro to joying pvp even its not my main game. I let magery example raise it own.. in 3 yers i get 98,6 if i remeber right.

No im start all over and im much happier now than IN2 or INR and i belive that who have skills allredy and vets will help new people alot to start and forming guilds and "meaning" for game.
If all get easy all skills and all have same like characters personal i think thats booring and nothing new than all other games. Like 2-3 yers from now have nothing to gain for skills.

Im maby too old *fart* when thinking that like 3d shotters game houses make them like all people can be good att it and cheats are easy to use to more people buying then than you have to practise it to be good. I realy belive that PvP players what just do what they are best.. and want to be skills fast to do it. still if you good att it you shod joy chalence.

Sory my bad english again -.- hard to write what like to say..still much work one it.

[imported_Duke]

You can't be serious when you say you kill zombies for money... What shard have you ever played on that allowed you to make a living killing zombies. Try collecting hides and tailoring them or selling them, each hide is worth about 10gp and a greater hart or bull drops 30. Thats 300gp per animal... also mage is alot easier now that you can just cast first circle spells, we had to move from f1st circle to 8th circle which costs alot more regs and alot more mana. It took us 2 months to gm mage, but I dont have a problem with making it easier for the people who had to start from scratch.

[imported_Smurtle]

The basis is that starting from scratch, 500 gps, it's hard to macro anything that requires money. I attacked a grizzly bear, hart. It took a good ten minutes for the hart and maybe 30 for the grizzly. The hits just aren't there, the spell book isnt there to heal, and the aids aren't there to heal without spells. So, selling furs is bullshit, honestly. I've enough patience to do it, but I know a LOT who do not. So, I have to present based on a general appeal.

The entrance of a new player is quite tough and I almost always promote an economy over player skills- but he has a very valid point. Many did wait for this, and should deserve their transfer, but..it just comes off as a bit unfair, considering they just need regs and they can roll, let alone the fact they get a cash amount. Trying to hunt on 65 magery when there's literally a guild of vets with everything they need gank trolling..can be a bit hard. I tried out Brit GY and found a red camping there. It's just the only convenient place to hunt, maybe vesper GY, without having to run a long distance to hunt. Then, what if you die? You have to run and res then run back. It's almost not worth it to hunt unless you can GM magery and at least have decent healing to keep your cost of regs (healing specific) down. I think it will be a while before a newbie character to turn a profit.

I think the best idea I've seen was 10k start up cash, maybe per character, and with one account per household, that's enough to get a house between two people. Scratch that, maybe 2k, or 3k. Even that's more than enough start up money if you can share it with someone else. If there is no one, then it will at least set you up with enough cash to purchase some iron, or skills to train so you can begin macroing a craft. However, crafts right now, aside from just trying to get skill, is going to be the longest way to get cash or get a nice turnover. Hunting is the easiet way.

From what I've seen, craft macros are going have to be on hold until I can GM magery and healing so I can properly hunt to purchase items, without financial woe accompanying a purchase. Such woes are buying regs or mine for 4 hours to just purchase them because I bought a slew of bolts..which I saw were about 186-100gps on average from the places I've visited.

It does make for a good economy, but I can see a monopoly forming from the veterans, but eh..I may just forgo crafts entirely, aside from alchemy.

[imported_Smurtle]

You can't be serious when you say you kill zombies for money... What shard have you ever played on that allowed you to make a living killing zombies. Try collecting hides and tailoring them or selling them, each hide is worth about 10gp and a greater hart or bull drops 30. Thats 300gp per animal... also mage is alot easier now that you can just cast first circle spells, we had to move from f1st circle to 8th circle which costs alot more regs and alot more mana. It took us 2 months to gm mage, but I dont have a problem with making it easier for the people who had to start from scratch.

And he is serious. I do it. It's the only thing I can confidently kill without (usually) dying. It's still hours and hours of commitment to so little money. It's worth the time to craft daggers, but there's so many doing it, and without the ability to recall or gain spells for my spell book, let alone the cash for magery- skills trump cash in my case. At least, PVP skills. Crafts are out, so that leaves hunting..which as you can see, turns into a bit of a Catch 22.;/

[imported_Nostalgia]

Play the game and stop whining.. I started on this shard with nothing and I really appreciate the server.. work for your skills.

[imported_Kano]

Wowow, lots of replies.

Very nice post to read and I honestly agree with parts of your post even though I have 3653.1 skill points and rising.
I don't see anything happening about the majority of this, though I am sure more tweaks will be made to skill gains as data is collected. However, may I suggest that you try casting poison instead of night sight. This only takes nightshade and even though it takes a little more mana, it is more cost efficient.
I seriously don't find your post the least bit whiny at all. Discussing the economy of the shard is important and always needs to be taken into consideration. Though there are some huge problems with this. About half of the shard does not care about the economy and just wants their pockets filled with gold, banks filled with vanq weps, and scrolls.
You are most likely right about some people thinking you are complaining or about people disagreeing with a need for a stable economy. The thing is though, where will the line be drawn? Everyone will complain, threaten to leave, and argue indefinitely if skills were to be dropped (even a little) or gold was to be wiped even. Though I support the fact that something should be done, I think it is too late.

Ty for the respectful response. As to what you said, if someone wants 10 mil gold, vanqs, scrolls blah blah, they want this for personal reasons, not for economic reasons. As it is right now, the vets control the market because they have not only a good amount of starting gold, but more importantly all the skills they need to craft/hunt/pvp, whatever. What I am proposing is that we adjust the cost of regs and/or the skill gain so newer players can influence the economy as well.

How is it too late for something to be done? The shard is what, 3 days old? I have faith the Maka and the other devs will continue adjust the cost of items/skill gain until they feel they have proper settings.

I like your idea about lowering the costs in the begging, but that leads to a different problem, what happens when you are a vet?

I'm not sure if I understand your question, but IMO reagents are in the game to prevent noobs in their underwear from running around with a spellbook and casting on everyone. You die -> you lose your regs -> you can't cast. That's all they should be. The cost of regs should be low enough for them to be almost worthless aside from the fact you need them to cast and make pots. That said, I think that the vets have enough (or the ability to make enough) gold so that the cost of regs should never affect their bottom line so to speak.

about the magery gain i can calm you down, i bought 1800 pices of soulphous ashes (not that expensive, with your combat skill and some orc hunting you can get the money for that in a houer or two)
But with those regs i casted magic arrow on my self, gained a littel healing but a whole 2,5% in magery and my magery is in the mid 80's. And it don't take that long to cast 1800 magic arrows.
so no it's deffently not impossible to GM magery from scratch.
It won't cost a shit load of money, but still a reasonable ammount
It won't take months upon months

Like I said, the example I used was a very small sample size. When I get home I will try macroing again for an hour or so and see what happens. I know Maka has been adjusting the gains, so I could be very wrong about my previous example.

Alot of the vets as ive noticed have been quite generous to new players.... ive been giving llamas and whatever i can spare to whoever looks like they need it.

Once a few guilds get up and running as well there is even more help for you with them.

And im not saying "deal with it" i agree with your post but like u said what done is done im just offering some help

That is nice of you, and the generous vets, but as far as I'm concerned that doesn't have anything to do with the unbalanced economy and player base. In fact, the fact that you have so much that you can just give freebies to new players, FURTHER illustrates how wide the gap is between new players and vets.

There is meny meny meny shards to get pvp skils easy and there is not good economy or ground for rp.

I think when is harder to get skills more better guilds forming , you dont have to be vet to pvp ... 6 noobs can do much damage for vets ^^

i didint have to ever makro to joying pvp even its not my main game. I let magery example raise it own.. in 3 yers i get 98,6 if i remeber right.

No im start all over and im much happier now than IN2 or INR and i belive that who have skills allredy and vets will help new people alot to start and forming guilds and "meaning" for game.
If all get easy all skills and all have same like characters personal i think thats booring and nothing new than all other games. Like 2-3 yers from now have nothing to gain for skills.

Im maby too old *fart* when thinking that like 3d shotters game houses make them like all people can be good att it and cheats are easy to use to more people buying then than you have to practise it to be good. I realy belive that PvP players what just do what they are best.. and want to be skills fast to do it. still if you good att it you shod joy chalence.

Sory my bad english again -.- hard to write what like to say..still much work one it.

So you say easy pvp gains lead to a bad economy? Well what does STARTING WITH ALL GM SKILLS lead to? I mean lol. I can totally understand compensating the vets, but in reality, they really have it made. A newbied full spellbook + GM magery is just an absolute landslide of an advantage over someone who doesn't have one and won't be able to have one for a long time. Not to mention the GM crafts they start with.

Also, if you think I want to be gaining skills in 2-3 years, you're smokin good nugs. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm here to PvP. That's right, I'm here to kill you and take your stuff. My friends and I are coming to a realization that we are going to have to do a lot of 'Work' before we can start 'playing'. A game shouldn't be like that - and if that is the way it is, than everyone should start on the same playing field. I posted this in hopes of reform before more people become frustrated with the unbalancedness, and find a different shard.

Thanks for reading,
Kan0

[imported_Kano]

Play the game and stop whining.. I started on this shard with nothing and I really appreciate the server.. work for your skills.

Thank you for your constructive reply. I happen to agree with everything you say. I started with nothing, and appreciate the server as well. I also am working for my skills, macroing right now. If you aren't too busy trying to berate other players, Nostalgia, what is your take on how the skill transfer has effected the economy? Can new players compete with vets and why or why not?