[imported_Lindenwood]

Most of what I said, other than the first line, was directed more at the community in general, than you specifically.

But, it sounds like there were a few people from XUO that were "hardcore," and the rest that were pansies who stayed hiding in guarded areas. On IN, like I said, you were shamed to be a fighter for Order, but be hiding in guarded areas all the time. Thus, there were always people to fight, even when you were read. However, of course, if you were an Order crafting guild or something then you weren't always pressured to fight, but that isn't really the point.

So, if everyone would grow some (talking to those that have none, not really everyone), then that would kill two lame birds with one stone. The first "bird" being people lacking a pair and hiding in guards all the time, and the second being people using lame tactics so they could kill those ball-less people hiding behind guards all the time).

[imported_Ztoke]

Most of what I said, other than the first line, was directed more at the community in general, than you specifically.

That's OK, I wasn't taking most of it personal, I was just defending the community and why they did what they did.

But, it sounds like there were a few people from XUO that were "hardcore," and the rest that were pansies who stayed hiding in guarded areas. On IN, like I said, you were shamed to be a fighter for Order, but be hiding in guarded areas all the time. Thus, there were always people to fight, even when you were read. However, of course, if you were an Order crafting guild or something then you weren't always pressured to fight, but that isn't really the point.

I'd say about half of XUO were hardcore gankers/pvpers, and the other half were less good players grouping in huge groups, staying order or chaos, and hiding at the britain bridge fighting from the guardline. Sure these people were pussies, and I'm not defending them.

However due to that they were being pusses I believe some of the good players decided that it would be better to stay blue, get in the oposite faction, and get within that guardline and kick their ass. So they started to do that, and in time more and more of the red hardcore players decided to go blue to fight within the guardline, because that was where most of the action took place at the end of XUO. I believe the red towns were more and more "abandoned" in the end, pretty much because of the simple reason that it was more action going on within the guardline, so people went there instead. At a bigger shard I'm pretty sure that most of the hardcore gankers/pvpers from XUO would come back to the red side, because wherever there is a lot of people to kill - that is where they will be.

So, if everyone would grow some (talking to those that have none, not really everyone), then that would kill two lame birds with one stone. The first "bird" being people lacking a pair and hiding in guards all the time, and the second being people using lame tactics so they could kill those ball-less people hiding behind guards all the time).

If "lame tactics" is the only way to get to most of the players at the shard, then that is what people will do. It's not a matter of being lame really, it's a matter of doing what had to be done to have fun at a lil smaller shard. :]


Oh btw, I've never really been much of a "kill newb people ganker", but most people sooner or later went to gank in britain, so even the less newb people were there. Therefor me and my friends became blue as well, not to kill the less good people, but to kill the good people that decided to go after all the others to britain, and have some guild war.

Ok yet another pretty long ass post, I need to shorten these posts down Sorry about that once again, I guess I just had a lot on my mind.

- Ztoke

[imported_Kamos]

Changing guild alignment is going to take 7 days? How about disbanding your guild, making a new one with same name but different alignment?

[imported_Rachet]

Actually the things you've heard about XUO players being good at PvP is no lie, neither is it a lie that they were great at ganking, but a lot of them did stay blue. I'll explain why below.

It was not because they were any less good gankers or PvPers, it was simply since after adding the order/chaos system most players fought that way, in guarded towns, to be able to reach as big part of the community in war as possible, not only the other red people.

Sure the "real blue players" were mostly cowards staying in the guardline. But the good players who stayed blue did it not because they were cowards, but because they wanted to be able to attack the real cowards as well as the red people.

They did not either "HIDE" behind guards, because you were not SAFE in guardzones if you were in an order or chaos guild, you could be killed there just as well as anywhere else. The only difference was that you couldn't just attack anybody there.

I've always prefered Ocllo, Bucs, etc etc, red towns. I've never really been a big fan of order vs chaos or guild wars at all. I used to have hundreds of kills at all sphere versions of XUO.

.. However things changed when we decided to switch to RunUO and have a working nice guild wars-script. I noticed that staying blue would open up a path to being able to kill the people that you normally never could kill - due to that they were hiding behind the guard line.

Being a red and fighting blue people before was always lame. They recalled or ran into guardlines and hid behind the guards. (for example britain bridge). But after this guild war change it was a GOOD THING to stay blue, before I didn't CARE since I didn't like blue towns, guards, or anything like that. I liked the freedom of being able to kill whoever I wanted to kill.

Oh well, back to the subject. Now when I had seen a way to kill these people who ran into guardline, and actually kill them WITHIN the guardline, without them being able to do CRAP about it, was real nice.

These people believing that they were safe within the guardline, not thinking about that they were in an enemy alignment, were now targets that I could actually kill, even when they were in their "safe guardline spot", simply because we were at war thanks to the alignment, and guards wouldn't attack me unless I attacked somebody from my own alignment OR a neutral person.

I'm not saying that Order means "good" or Chaos means "bad" really. I was just looking at it like that so that others would see why people CAN change opinions - and they still can. A person who believes in order can go chaotic and start hating on their own and turning against all they believed in, so they should be able to.

If you in real life stab your friends in the back (not literally) but then regret what you've done, then perhaps they'd let you back inside the group again. That doesn't mean they've forgotten what you have done, but they may have forgiven you since you're regretting what you did and is now a "changed person".

However here in UO becoming an order person again, or chaos person again, does not mean that these people have forgiven you, they still know you stabbed them in the back, it's just that you're "on the same side" in a big war way beyond your small argument with this person you stabbed. You can still have your little vendetta with this person, and perhaps stab him back when you're out in the wild hunting some people from a different alignment. People can pretend to forgive, but they may not forget.

I think that sums it up pretty much. With that being said I'd just like to give you one more understanding in why players were blue even tho they PvPed 24/7 or close to it at XUO:

The kills were "frozen" when you were fighting in tourneys and killing people. We also had stones at pits in which you could spend money to lower your kill count. People stayed on a "fine line" with about 1 kill away from being red all the time. They were also staying logged on to get kills removed while they slept, etc etc. People fought a lot, they killed a lot, they learned how to pvp and gank in a real advanced and nice way, they just stayed blue for the beneficial reasons, not because they wanted to hide behind the guarded line - but because they wanted to kill the people who did, and to also be able to kill the red people - but they didn't get kills when they did that, now did they? so they still stayed blue no matter what. The only way for them to turn red was to kill somebody from their own alignment, or a neutral person, and people hardly ever did that, and when they did they still stayed on that fine line to stay blue - simply because it was worth it in the long run.

Sorry for the long ass post btw. I believe that I am representing the XUO players in a good way, you just missunderstod me when it comes to why most people were blue at the last version of XUO.

- Ztoke

As far as I can remember, this is how it was on In1.. you could change sides.. so if it was never an issue then, i dont think it will be now. Even ISO you can change anytime..

If you want to roleplay reason for changing thats fine, but I really doubt your going to have a HUGE RP guild at war with a totally NON-RP guild .. i just dont see them clashing except for pvp alone.. if they do fight.. it will be simply for pvp purposes.. so i wouldn't worry about Writing RP stories involving Xuo guilds vs IN Rp guilds..

Once your in the game, you'll see how it'l work.. to hard to predict now, id just wait and see.. everyone should technically be allowed to play anyway they want..

And honestly, we all act like were not going to be used to playing with XUO guys.. but thats not the case at all.. we had PLENTY of players who had the same style of playing as some of the XUO players on In1 and it was never an issue.. anyone who's played IN1 will probably not even notice the difference..

In1 was an amazing community and we had ALL types of players.. good and bad.. this will be nothing new.


On another note, all this talk off ppl being pussies for fighting at guard lines.. people can play anyway they want.. if you dont want to fight them, go find somewhere else to look for victims.. If I join an Order guild as lets say, Guild Tamer or Carpender.. I shouldn't have to feel obligated to go out of the guard lines to fight because I'm order and I shouldn't have to be killed either.. BUT at the same time.. If I do work for an Order guild, I should be just as much a target to cripple my guild.. I just don't think people should be regarded as pussies at a SHARD wide judgement just because they dont play like you..

I wouldn't mind some pvp action once and awhile, but I was never hardcore pvper and honestly.. pvp'ers almost always hunt in packs.. so you know if you take one on outside the guardzone, 5 will appear and trust me.. their not going to stand back and let it be a fair 1 on 1 lol.. Pvp is almost always about Strictly the loot when it isnt a predetermined Duel or challenge.. and honestly.. if your AN amazing pvp guild .. how much useful loot can ordinary players really have? Its just about killing them to show you can.. not all of it is skill. For big fights between skilled players, im sure its all about the action.. But ganking ppl outside the bridge of britain is not really an amazing achievement.. even if I was a GM everything.. if 5 ppl suddenly appear.. i will lose.. SO to me, thats just cheap.. BUT if thats your bag.. or YOur rping simply an really evil guy, or psycopath.. or WHATEVEr.. then it makes pretty good sense. BUt if an XUO guy looking for PVP action.. comes around a kills me walking down the road with his 5 buddies and loots my practically empty body and then says "PWNED or RAPED" im totally ****ing out of here lol.. I don't play with that kind of crap.. i respect Skill and Roleplaying etc..and actually this isnt just XUO, anyone is capable of acting childish like that.. its not PWNED or RAPED if 5 ppl gang up on a merchant walking down the road.. sorry but thats just sad.. IF YOU want to kill me and cut up my corpse.. hey No problem.. just dont talk Sh It for such an obviously unchallenging fight is all im saying. Nothing wrong with talking trash in an even fight.. but embarrasing someone just because you found them and killed them.. doesn't make you skilled.. doesn't make you bad either.. just isn't an amazing achievement in my eyes.

I really don't mind any style of playing.. just don't talk shit unless you've actually earned the right too. In my opinion, saying constant banter like "NOOB PWNED RAPED OWNED SCHOOLED ETC ETC" for EVERY single kill you make and EVERY person you fight.. is annoying and childish.. oh im sure it gets the job done of making the other person mad as hell.. but thats just increcibly disrespectful.. unles you REALLY did own them in a good fight.. then you've earned it.. this isn't directed at XUO players.. plenty of IN players did this kind of thing.

[imported_Rachet]

Changing guild alignment is going to take 7 days? How about disbanding your guild, making a new one with same name but different alignment?

Guild stones might not be cheap.

[imported_Sorick]

If you like to kill people so much (XUO players ) go red, thats what you do when you kill people.... If they want to hide behind gaurds, let them be the pussies. If your order or chaos, atleast stay with it and dont be switching back and fourth. If you dont wanna rp then dont, nobody is forcing you. Im fine with people not rping but i dont wanna see players being like " HES A NOOB", "I PWNED HIM", "OMG YOU SUCK", "IM L33t". Also i hope gms enforce guild tags, so people wont have them like [PWN|, [L33t] etc.

[imported_ScareCrow]

Guys, the point of this game is to hate every single person that plays except the exceptional few. The more you hate, the more you can kill when they walk into Occlo, having a ton of friends sucks balls because you have to be nice to them. I say **** everything, walk into xuo and just start attacking the guards in Britain cuz they're ***gits too, they always seem to try n kill me, prolly cuz of the Red name :evil: But word, just kill everything and this shard should be fun, and make sure you havee lots off good stuff on you when you encounter me, then you can attack me or I'll transitianally just kill you fast n take ya shit :icon_twisted: thanks take care

Regards,
ScareCrow aka The Fake Hate but i love him and i love nOx too

[imported_Kamos]

Guild stones might not be cheap.

They can't really be insanely high priced either and there is always bound to be rich individuals on the shard. That and guild deed doesn't need to be bought by one player alone. I'm sure there is numerous ways to prevent this without making guild deeds insanely high priced. Making items harder to obtain instead of fixing it in code sounds like "sphere" way of doing things anyway.

What I actually wanted to know was if it's been noticed that this might be a way to lift guild alignment change restrictions, and if not, to bring it to attention of the dev team. I myself don't care if people can change alignment as they please but from Nasir's post before I got the impression that's not what devs want. Just trying to help out whenever I notice things like this.

[imported_Ztoke]

On another note, all this talk off ppl being pussies for fighting at guard lines.. people can play anyway they want.. if you dont want to fight them, go find somewhere else to look for victims..

In a matter of fact I would consider these blue people to be pretty brave actually. Not because of the coward (or smart?) way of using the guardline, but because of them actually fighting back.

Most red people just recalled away when they saw some good gankers, but the blue people actually stayed to fight, probably because of that they had the handicap of the guardline, but still.

You can't really blame the red guys for getting a little bit annoyed by the blue people (the only people to gank pretty much) hiding behind the guardline tho? So when they realized that most of the blue people were either order or chaos-guilds they figured that if they'd go blue as well they'd be able to fight them INSIDE the guardline, so they did. That does not make the PKs any less good though, just smart, at least in my opinion

People still fought guys all the time at XUO, it was not about them being scared to fight or anything, it was just about leaving the "neutral people" alone, plus leaving their own alignment alone. If they did that then they'd stay blue and be able to enjoy the fun in guildwars.

Oh well I think this discussion has come to an end, because as far as I can tell the staffmembers are not going to change anything when it comes to this situation really. But I think we'll all like it the way it is now. People will adjust, and like you said - most IN1 players will already be familiar with the situation, and considering they loved IN1 so much it may perhaps not be such a bad situation?

I wouldn't mind some pvp action once and awhile, but I was never hardcore pvper and honestly.. pvp'ers almost always hunt in packs.. so you know if you take one on outside the guardzone, 5 will appear and trust me.. their not going to stand back and let it be a fair 1 on 1 lol..

That is why we have the open duel pits :] In there you can fight people without anybody else being able to interupt your fun 1v1 duel, for those that prefer fair duels instead of 1v5. You can either fight for money or for loot, either way it's pretty much like fighting out in the wild but without having any other people interupting you, plus the fact that you can't run away until one of you are dead

- Ztoke

[imported_Rachet]

In a matter of fact I would consider these blue people to be pretty brave actually. Not because of the coward (or smart?) way of using the guardline, but because of them actually fighting back.

Most red people just recalled away when they saw some good gankers, but the blue people actually stayed to fight, probably because of that they had the handicap of the guardline, but still.

You can't really blame the red guys for getting a little bit annoyed by the blue people (the only people to gank pretty much) hiding behind the guardline tho? So when they realized that most of the blue people were either order or chaos-guilds they figured that if they'd go blue as well they'd be able to fight them INSIDE the guardline, so they did. That does not make the PKs any less good though, just smart, at least in my opinion

People still fought guys all the time at XUO, it was not about them being scared to fight or anything, it was just about leaving the "neutral people" alone, plus leaving their own alignment alone. If they did that then they'd stay blue and be able to enjoy the fun in guildwars.

Oh well I think this discussion has come to an end, because as far as I can tell the staffmembers are not going to change anything when it comes to this situation really. But I think we'll all like it the way it is now. People will adjust, and like you said - most IN1 players will already be familiar with the situation, and considering they loved IN1 so much it may perhaps not be such a bad situation?



That is why we have the open duel pits :] In there you can fight people without anybody else being able to interupt your fun 1v1 duel, for those that prefer fair duels instead of 1v5. You can either fight for money or for loot, either way it's pretty much like fighting out in the wild but without having any other people interupting you, plus the fact that you can't run away until one of you are dead

- Ztoke

Ya i wouldn't mind fighting in duel pits then.

[imported_Cole]

Ok, i seriously don't even know how i started this thread...all i did was quote somebody in a reply and then it became a separate war-spawning entity. Seeing as how i didn't actually mean to draw as much attention to this issue as i did, i'll say i think the situation will be fine, and players from our previous shards should probably stop accusing each of a faulty play style.

I was thinking to ask some old XUO players though: i'm sure chaos guilds attacked other chaos guilds, but because like alignments appear "green" to each other, would some order guilds gank each other in town? Rather, was this common?

[imported_Lerri]

alignment hopping happened all the time on IN, its not like its some horriffic atrocity unique to XUO. and tbh im fine with it, when i was SIN i played a good guy with a wicked streak, i killed other chaos, most of them were evil anyway, order was full of corrupt asshats, except BoJ who were just god damn awesome.

corruption exists in reality and i love how it can be reflected in UO. alignment in the end is completely meaningless, how you or your guild carry yourselves is what makes the impact.

ps your all whiny little bastards and i hate you. except skorp you are my love kitten.