[imported_Cole]

i dunno how ur order/chaos guilds were, but on xuo, even orders ganked. only thing was if u were order and saw a chaos on a guarded town, u could attack each other and loot in the city without being guardskilled

Order guilds ganked on IN too, but i (and i think many others) always preferred when order guilds actually tried to act, fight and speak honorably, while chaos guilds acted oppositely. In a world thats going for any kind of RP feel i think this is something to try for.

[imported_Ztoke]

Order guilds ganked on IN too, but i (and i think many others) always preferred when order guilds actually tried to act, fight and speak honorably, while chaos guilds acted oppositely. In a world thats going for any kind of RP feel i think this is something to try for.

Hehe, over at XUO I think that most people would choose order or chaos depending on which other guilds that were order or chaos at the time. If for example the guild with the best loot on them decíded to go chaos, then my guild would go order so that we could kick the ass out of those chaos people and get that leet loot they had, without guards killing us in blue towns.

I think that the "evilness" and "none roleplayingness" of most of the XUO players will make it hard to keep that "Order good guys" and "Chaos evil guys" thing working properly.

We need to think about that XUO is a big part of this merge as well, and the XUO players has to "feel at home" as well. I think that going from "Ok lets switch to chaos to kick Arnolds ass", to "Ok lets go order to be good guys and protect Britain from evil Arnold and his crew." is a quite huge change. Not just by thinking that for a second, but actually having to roleplay in a long term as if it was like that.

I don't think most XUO players would want to roleplay at all, at least not on their main characters. They may be OK with letting people roleplay without "ruining the feeling" for the roleplayers, but actually getting the none-roleplayers to roleplay themselves could be real hard in my opinion. Even if they'd do it I think most of them would feel uncomfortable with that kind of situation. So I think the best thing would be to let roleplayers roleplay, but not "force" roleplaying upon the people who doesn't want to roleplay, and I think that forcing them to act like "good guys" when they're order people, and the other way around, may be doing just that.

- Ztoke

[imported_Valas]

So basically XUO players are loot hungry and are gonna ruin the RP for IN players? IN players need to feel at home as well as XUO and order/chaos jumping is pretty damn stupid. Choose a side and stick with it.

I don't care if you wanna gank but if the majority of XUO players are gonna be chaos no matter if they are order or chaos and then jump sides when it's convenient just so they don't get a kill count then i'm not gonna stick around long. That is not a community I wanna be a part of.

[imported_Ztoke]

So basically XUO players are loot hungry and are gonna ruin the RP for IN players? IN players need to feel at home as well as XUO and order/chaos jumping is pretty damn stupid. Choose a side and stick with it.

I don't care if you wanna gank but if the majority of XUO players are gonna be chaos no matter if they are order or chaos and then jump sides when it's convenient just so they don't get a kill count then i'm not gonna stick around long. That is not a community I wanna be a part of.

Of course IN players need to feel at home as well, the roleplay will play a huge part of IN-X. But forcing XUO players to roleplay just because the IN players would want that is not something that would gain the shard either. I think that letting roleplayers roleplay, and letting them keep the "feeling" that they are in a roleplayish world is a good thing. However since half the shard are none roleplayers I don't think we should force the none-roleplayers to roleplay, do you?

The jumping between chaos and order should be possible in my opinion because people can "turn good", or "turn evil" as time goes by. So changing sides is good for both roleplayers and none roleplayers. However at XUO we had a "fix" against order/chaos jumping, that was that you could only change between them once every 24th hour. So you couldn't just change back and forth as soon as somebody else changed, but you did not have to be chaos for life, or order for life, and you COULD "become evil" because your enemy became good, because you really wanted to kill him (not just for the loot, that's just me ;p). Does that make sense to you?

It's not going to be just order/chaos jumping either way. Most people settle down in either chaos or order sooner or later, because the only real reason to change between the two is if your "worst enemy" changes to your side.

It is not about getting kill counts or not, it's about being able to gank at more spots with people in it. If you're chaos and your enemy is order then you can fight them in blue guarded towns without being guardwhacked, that is pretty much why.

If everybody decides to choose chaos in the beginning, then I'd be the first one to choose order instead. The more people to kill the better. I want to be on the side with less people on it, not the other way around.

XUO players will not choose chaos just because they are gankers from XUO, at least not unless you FORCE them to roleplay in an "order way" in case they choose order.

- Ztoke

[imported_Valas]

I'm not asking to force them to roleplay. I'm asking that there is a system in place to prevent WHOLE GUILDS from switching back and forth. 24 hours isn't enough, a guild should be forced to pick and should only be able to choose sides once every few weeks.

A single player wanting to switch sides is one thing but having a whole guild switch sides is another. And besides, if xuo went chaos they could kill anyone they want. That's how it goes, reds kill blues and reds alike. It sounds like xuo wants to be able to gank and be dicks and not have to pay for it with kill counts, which is LAME. If you wanna be a killer, be prepared to deal with the consequences.

[imported_Ztoke]

I'm not asking to force them to roleplay. I'm asking that there is a system in place to prevent WHOLE GUILDS from switching back and forth. 24 hours isn't enough, a guild should be forced to pick and should only be able to choose sides once every few weeks.

A single player wanting to switch sides is one thing but having a whole guild switch sides is another. And besides, if xuo went chaos they could kill anyone they want. That's how it goes, reds kill blues and reds alike. It sounds like xuo wants to be able to gank and be dicks and not have to pay for it with kill counts, which is LAME. If you wanna be a killer, be prepared to deal with the consequences.

How do you suggest "one player" to switch between order and chaos? The only time you can BE an order or chaos person is if you're in an guild that is order or chaos. It's not possible as far as I know to be an order or chaos person without a guild, then you'd be neutral.

I don't think you're really listening to me..

XUO players _CAN NOT_ kill anybody they want if they are in a chaos guild, at least not in GUARDED towns and that is what I am talking about. They can not kill other chaos guilds without being gwhacked in an guarded town. They can not either kill neutral people in a guarded town without being gwhacked.

I am not talking about unguarded towns or other unguarded areas. I am not either talking about KILL COUNTS really, I am talking about being able to kill people in a lot more areas, like for example blue towns.

If you are chaos, and your worst enemy is chaos, and he's a coward who only hunts ORDER people in GUARDED towns, then the only way for you to kill him without actually getting gwhacked (or risking to get guardwhacked) is to SWITCH to ORDER and become one of the people he tries to kill, and that way kill him.

Just because most XUO players likes to gank doesn't mean they like to turn red. Most XUO players only kills red people and opposite guild people (order killing chaos etc etc). At the latest version of XUO there was not more than a couple of red characters, mainly because it's such an disadvantage to be a murderer. But killing people is fun, and most XUO players think so, that does not however mean everybody will choose chaos, because then they wouldn't be able to kill each other at all, at least not in safe towns. I for one would easily choose order if all other players were chaos. I would bring my closest friends along and kick the ass off every chaos player that I could find and grab their loot. That is what is fun to me.

I don't think you'd either like it if your enemy who has been in another allignment than you changed to your allignment just so you can't attack him in safe towns anymore. Of course you'd want to change to the other opposite allignment to kick his ass some more. How fun would it be if you wouldn't then change allignment for a month or so? ;p People would get away from their enemies that way. If you don't want to be part of the fighting in blue towns, then stay neutral, but if you go order or chaos then expect some niice ganking action, because that's what order and chaos is all about to me, a lot of fun ganking action in safe towns.

- Ztoke

[imported_Valas]

I don't think you understand me. One player can switch between GUILDS which are chaos and order. Which is the way it should be. And I think that is such a cop-out the whole killing people in town bullshit.

I'm a red, I've been red for as long as I remember. I'm a murderer and I've accepted the fact that I can never enter a blue town.

If you wanna kill as many people as possible then be a red. Switching sides is just a cop-out for those who don't want to be ganked by their own friends and "allies". Hell I've had times where I would be killing blues with my "allies" only to have them suddenly turn around and kill me. These kiddies just don't wanna be hurt when they don't feel like fighting.

As I said if you wanna be a ganking dick then why don't you just go red? By the sounds of it, if most xuo players COULDN'T switch sides then they would just be red. But they just wanna sit in their guarded towns and be able to have an easy life on top of their ganking ways.

[imported_Fable]

i would like to read ur posts Ztoke, but theyr just so long.. i would start read them if u wrote short
oh and.. XUO players shouldnt be forced to RP AND IN players shouldnt be forced to stop RP, right? same with pvp, u shouldnt change it

[imported_Ztoke]

I don't think you understand me. One player can switch between GUILDS which are chaos and order. Which is the way it should be. And I think that is such a cop-out the whole killing people in town bullshit.

I'm a red, I've been red for as long as I remember. I'm a murderer and I've accepted the fact that I can never enter a blue town.

If you wanna kill as many people as possible then be a red. Switching sides is just a cop-out for those who don't want to be ganked by their own friends and "allies". Hell I've had times where I would be killing blues with my "allies" only to have them suddenly turn around and kill me. These kiddies just don't wanna be hurt when they don't feel like fighting.

As I said if you wanna be a ganking dick then why don't you just go red? By the sounds of it, if most xuo players COULDN'T switch sides then they would just be red. But they just wanna sit in their guarded towns and be able to have an easy life on top of their ganking ways.

I missunderstood you about the "switching guild instead of allignment issue", however you still haven't understood me when it comes to how I believe most of the XUO players think.

The main reason isn't to get less kills, it is to be able to fight a lot more players, the players that are blue and that stays most of their time in blue towns - but still has agree'd to "fight" in there, but only with other allignments. By having it this way you'll get more areas to gank in. Lets say you are red and can only go to red towns, then all of a sudden you CAN go to blue towns too, but when you're there you're only able to kill some people that is "OK" with that, the people that has chosen the different allignment than you.

When people choose an allignment they agree to two things:

1. Being able to kill the other allignment in a guarded town. (this is the main reason why most people doesn't stay neutral).

2. Being OK with getting attacked by people in the other allignment, in a guarded town. (this is the "consequences" of what I said above).

If you don't want to agree to these two terms then you can stay neutral, or go red and only fight half as much players on the red side.

Most XUO players will NOT kill blue players, and they will not kill people in the same allignment either. This is because they like being blue, it has a lot of advantages.

Being able to switch allignment once every 24th hour doesn't mean that they will do it all the time. People find friends within allignments and stay that way, they like it there. However having the possibility to change allignment if your enemy decides to switch to your allignment should still be allowed in my opinion.

It is not about getting kill counts, if people doesn't want to have kill counts then they can just as well kill red people in unguarded towns, or kill the different faction that they are in at the time.

If somebody would want to kill EVERYBODY then being able to change allignment every 24th hour does not let them stay blue, they'd still turn red after only a few kills. Either way they have to "restrain" themselves from killing people, it's just about being able to have some kind of a "choice" of who they would like to kill within the guarded zone, and who they wouldn't like to kill there.

- Ztoke

[imported_Valas]

I just really don't wanna have to deal with people changing sides constantly. I like to know who my enemies are and who my allies are and have it stay that way. I don't want someone killing me one day and then pretending to be an ally the next and then going back to killing me the day after.

[imported_Ztoke]

I just really don't wanna have to deal with people changing sides constantly. I like to know who my enemies are and who my allies are and have it stay that way. I don't want someone killing me one day and then pretending to be an ally the next and then going back to killing me the day after.

I know what you mean, but on the other hand - that's how it works in life as well, right? And in the rest of UO. One day you're somebodys friend, the next day he or she could have decided to stab you in the back.

You (who apparantly has been red a lot during your UO time) probably recognizes these issues. People has probably pretended to be your allys, and then decided to stab you in the back. The good thing about this is when they decide to stab you in the back you can kick their ass as well, and that same thing goes for allignments. As soon as he changes allignment you will know that, you could possibly even kill him before he kills you, and if you two actually were "ok friends" then I doubt he'd change allignment if he liked to gank with you, or if he did he probably wouldn't backstab you even if he changes allignment, because he probably didn't do it to backstab.

- Ztoke

[imported_Veno]

If players arent going to act "orderly" when alligned order then what is the point of good vs evil?
Order guilds were expected and on occasion forced to act orderly on IN1 and if that very simple rule isnt carried on to IN:X then how are we rpers supposed to use any kind of fighting in our stories and character life?

Besides chaos alligned guilds could kill each other without getting kc's on IN1. Why isnt this carried onto here?