08-27-2007, 01:39 AM
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Actually the things you've heard about XUO players being good at PvP is no lie, neither is it a lie that they were great at ganking, but a lot of them did stay blue. I'll explain why below.
It was not because they were any less good gankers or PvPers, it was simply since after adding the order/chaos system most players fought that way, in guarded towns, to be able to reach as big part of the community in war as possible, not only the other red people.
Sure the "real blue players" were mostly cowards staying in the guardline. But the good players who stayed blue did it not because they were cowards, but because they wanted to be able to attack the real cowards as well as the red people.
They did not either "HIDE" behind guards, because you were not SAFE in guardzones if you were in an order or chaos guild, you could be killed there just as well as anywhere else. The only difference was that you couldn't just attack anybody there.
I've always prefered Ocllo, Bucs, etc etc, red towns. I've never really been a big fan of order vs chaos or guild wars at all. I used to have hundreds of kills at all sphere versions of XUO.
.. However things changed when we decided to switch to RunUO and have a working nice guild wars-script. I noticed that staying blue would open up a path to being able to kill the people that you normally never could kill - due to that they were hiding behind the guard line.
Being a red and fighting blue people before was always lame. They recalled or ran into guardlines and hid behind the guards. (for example britain bridge). But after this guild war change it was a GOOD THING to stay blue, before I didn't CARE since I didn't like blue towns, guards, or anything like that. I liked the freedom of being able to kill whoever I wanted to kill.
Oh well, back to the subject. Now when I had seen a way to kill these people who ran into guardline, and actually kill them WITHIN the guardline, without them being able to do CRAP about it, was real nice.
These people believing that they were safe within the guardline, not thinking about that they were in an enemy alignment, were now targets that I could actually kill, even when they were in their "safe guardline spot", simply because we were at war thanks to the alignment, and guards wouldn't attack me unless I attacked somebody from my own alignment OR a neutral person.
I'm not saying that Order means "good" or Chaos means "bad" really. I was just looking at it like that so that others would see why people CAN change opinions - and they still can. A person who believes in order can go chaotic and start hating on their own and turning against all they believed in, so they should be able to.
If you in real life stab your friends in the back (not literally) but then regret what you've done, then perhaps they'd let you back inside the group again. That doesn't mean they've forgotten what you have done, but they may have forgiven you since you're regretting what you did and is now a "changed person".
However here in UO becoming an order person again, or chaos person again, does not mean that these people have forgiven you, they still know you stabbed them in the back, it's just that you're "on the same side" in a big war way beyond your small argument with this person you stabbed. You can still have your little vendetta with this person, and perhaps stab him back when you're out in the wild hunting some people from a different alignment. People can pretend to forgive, but they may not forget.
I think that sums it up pretty much. With that being said I'd just like to give you one more understanding in why players were blue even tho they PvPed 24/7 or close to it at XUO:
The kills were "frozen" when you were fighting in tourneys and killing people. We also had stones at pits in which you could spend money to lower your kill count. People stayed on a "fine line" with about 1 kill away from being red all the time. They were also staying logged on to get kills removed while they slept, etc etc. People fought a lot, they killed a lot, they learned how to pvp and gank in a real advanced and nice way, they just stayed blue for the beneficial reasons, not because they wanted to hide behind the guarded line - but because they wanted to kill the people who did, and to also be able to kill the red people - but they didn't get kills when they did that, now did they? so they still stayed blue no matter what. The only way for them to turn red was to kill somebody from their own alignment, or a neutral person, and people hardly ever did that, and when they did they still stayed on that fine line to stay blue - simply because it was worth it in the long run.
Sorry for the long ass post btw. I believe that I am representing the XUO players in a good way, you just missunderstod me when it comes to why most people were blue at the last version of XUO.
- Ztoke
Lindenwood Wrote:However, in real life, you can't be someone's friend, then turn around and stab them in the back, and then be their friend again, can you?[/SIZE]
I didn't read anything after this, but if Ztoke's views do actually represent how most XUO players think, then I have to say that it is indeed quite lame that everyone wants to fight but nobody wants to red.
Also, I am not sure how XUO worked, but
1) "Chaos" and "Order" are not synonymous with "good" and "evil." Order means that you prefer that everything be kept in Order, meaning you support law, governments, and peace. It does not mean you are a "good" person. In real life, Lawyers are Order in that they support law and government, but I have yet to meet one that I would describe as a "good" person. Conversely, "Chaos" means that you prefer to live by your own rules, and not by the law. However, you can have "good"-hearted person that is chaotic, like in real life how there may be some nasty thugs who, if you got to know them, are genuinely caring people. Lastly, because Chaotic people live by their own rules and creeds, they are not bound by any law that may state that they cannot kill any given "type" of people, so they can kill both other Chaotic people and also people who serve for Order.
2) On IN, there were lots of things to do as a Red. I had a few hundred KCs by the time I quit, but there was always stuff to do and always people to fight.
3) Also, on IN, it sounds like people in general had quite a bit bigger balls than the people you describe from XUO. Few order would sit around in guards, and most had the courage to go out and fight Chaotic people (most of which were red). If an order or group of Order would constantly hide behind the guards, they would get hounded by both Chaos (for being pussies) and Order (for embarassing the rest of the Order guilds by being pussies) until they made some adjustments.
I keep hearing all this about how XUO players are so crazy and evil and hardcore PVPers, but it is starting to sound like more of a front, like kids who act tough in front of their friends, than real "badassness."
Actually the things you've heard about XUO players being good at PvP is no lie, neither is it a lie that they were great at ganking, but a lot of them did stay blue. I'll explain why below.
It was not because they were any less good gankers or PvPers, it was simply since after adding the order/chaos system most players fought that way, in guarded towns, to be able to reach as big part of the community in war as possible, not only the other red people.
Sure the "real blue players" were mostly cowards staying in the guardline. But the good players who stayed blue did it not because they were cowards, but because they wanted to be able to attack the real cowards as well as the red people.
They did not either "HIDE" behind guards, because you were not SAFE in guardzones if you were in an order or chaos guild, you could be killed there just as well as anywhere else. The only difference was that you couldn't just attack anybody there.
I've always prefered Ocllo, Bucs, etc etc, red towns. I've never really been a big fan of order vs chaos or guild wars at all. I used to have hundreds of kills at all sphere versions of XUO.
.. However things changed when we decided to switch to RunUO and have a working nice guild wars-script. I noticed that staying blue would open up a path to being able to kill the people that you normally never could kill - due to that they were hiding behind the guard line.
Being a red and fighting blue people before was always lame. They recalled or ran into guardlines and hid behind the guards. (for example britain bridge). But after this guild war change it was a GOOD THING to stay blue, before I didn't CARE since I didn't like blue towns, guards, or anything like that. I liked the freedom of being able to kill whoever I wanted to kill.
Oh well, back to the subject. Now when I had seen a way to kill these people who ran into guardline, and actually kill them WITHIN the guardline, without them being able to do CRAP about it, was real nice.
These people believing that they were safe within the guardline, not thinking about that they were in an enemy alignment, were now targets that I could actually kill, even when they were in their "safe guardline spot", simply because we were at war thanks to the alignment, and guards wouldn't attack me unless I attacked somebody from my own alignment OR a neutral person.
I'm not saying that Order means "good" or Chaos means "bad" really. I was just looking at it like that so that others would see why people CAN change opinions - and they still can. A person who believes in order can go chaotic and start hating on their own and turning against all they believed in, so they should be able to.
If you in real life stab your friends in the back (not literally) but then regret what you've done, then perhaps they'd let you back inside the group again. That doesn't mean they've forgotten what you have done, but they may have forgiven you since you're regretting what you did and is now a "changed person".
However here in UO becoming an order person again, or chaos person again, does not mean that these people have forgiven you, they still know you stabbed them in the back, it's just that you're "on the same side" in a big war way beyond your small argument with this person you stabbed. You can still have your little vendetta with this person, and perhaps stab him back when you're out in the wild hunting some people from a different alignment. People can pretend to forgive, but they may not forget.
I think that sums it up pretty much. With that being said I'd just like to give you one more understanding in why players were blue even tho they PvPed 24/7 or close to it at XUO:
The kills were "frozen" when you were fighting in tourneys and killing people. We also had stones at pits in which you could spend money to lower your kill count. People stayed on a "fine line" with about 1 kill away from being red all the time. They were also staying logged on to get kills removed while they slept, etc etc. People fought a lot, they killed a lot, they learned how to pvp and gank in a real advanced and nice way, they just stayed blue for the beneficial reasons, not because they wanted to hide behind the guarded line - but because they wanted to kill the people who did, and to also be able to kill the red people - but they didn't get kills when they did that, now did they? so they still stayed blue no matter what. The only way for them to turn red was to kill somebody from their own alignment, or a neutral person, and people hardly ever did that, and when they did they still stayed on that fine line to stay blue - simply because it was worth it in the long run.
Sorry for the long ass post btw. I believe that I am representing the XUO players in a good way, you just missunderstod me when it comes to why most people were blue at the last version of XUO.
- Ztoke