[Fulmanar]

Fulmanar,

what YOU want and what YOU feel the shard needs are not necessarily what the shard needs. You are the only one in here defending this rule, were you the one to cause a stink in the beginning to get it in place?
The other majority of the shard (70% of which is afk macroing skills, im sure) doesn't know this rule is even in effect.

And like I said, this kind of stuff has been going on in uo FOREVER....it's safe to say 99% of all uo players of ALL TIME are aware that this can and does happen to people who demonstrate poor judgement....and its widely accepted. period. And furthermore, that uo is often about exploiting said people with poor judgement in a sandbox environment.

People make STUPID choices, they should suffer the consequences.............period.

I'm not arguing otherwise? you're literally taking my argument and just saying "no you" And what exactly are you accusing me of? I wasn't even playing when this rule was put into place, you need to stop accusing other people for insanities, the donators, GM favoritism and now I caused this rules? you can check the server status if you like I think my game time is like 20 days.

I also agree that this is UO, I said that in my first post if you'd care to read it, however we do not have the luxury of complete and total anarchy to wreak havoc on our playerbase which has only marginally stabilized and recently gotten to a self sufficient amount. If people start leaving because their guild got looted by literally anyone(not only new recruits, what if someone just wanted to quit the shard and leave on a nasty end and etc) We would lose players quickly and then no one would be playing at all.

Again i've said this before, not a single person is holding a gun to anyone's head forcing them to play in a manner in which they do not want to. If the shard does not do it for you, there are thousands of others which play the way you choose, wouldn't it be prudent to seek these out?

And let me just set up this pretense in case you do not understand it again: I agree this is the spirit of UO, IN was full of guild looting, it was legal(to my knowledge) and everything was hunky dorey, i'm okay with it in principle but we cannot afford the shard become a desolate wasteland.

If people are not aware of the rule who's fault is that? it's very clearly marked in the rules section in fact i'll quote it for you: "Looting guildhouses is not allowed. Regular house looting is allowed though."

The point is that this isn't some magical carpet over your eyes, you should have known full well what kind of shard this was before you played it, no one tricked anyone else, ignorance isn't an excuse.

[Rob]

I love it. I love poker too. Forums are slowly becoming worth reading.

[Kander]

*Install tram*

[Kennedy]

*Install tram*

Pretty much!

[Kennedy]

And let me just set up this pretense in case you do not understand it again: I agree this is the spirit of UO, IN was full of guild looting, it was legal(to my knowledge) and everything was hunky dorey, i'm okay with it in principle but we cannot afford the shard become a desolate wasteland.

So we should cater to the few who complained/threatened to leave and set this rule up in the first place? Ummm...hello! If that's not carebear favoritism, idk what is.

Also, take those words you said :
"Again i've said this before, not a single person is holding a gun to anyone's head forcing them to play in a manner in which they do not want to. If the shard does not do it for you, there are thousands of others which play the way you choose, wouldn't it be prudent to seek these out?"

Yeah, those ones.....that's what I would tell the original people who got looted and QQ'd for things to change, before this rule was put into place

Nuff said.

And i'm not meaning to come off as attacking or accuse you, and I apologize if it comes off that way.

Why dont we just put a big "Warning, this guild chest does not have a brain, please use your own" warning on the chests and be done with it?

[Fulmanar]

But we're not catering to anyone? They don't play here anymore and were banned or choose not to play and etc, why punish players for that?

And I don't know what you mean at all, if you don't like what te shard is like and it seems too "carebear" there are thousands of shards to choose from which do CATEr to your playstyle, whyn ot go to one of those? i'm not trying to be judgemental by honestly why not? And if it's good enough for them why is it not good enough for everyone else? Even fi the rule was too carebear and all that nonsense what does it matter? Taran made this shard to his vision and continues to do so, this is not the same UO you've played before.

If you don't like the vision why do you continue with it? If the shard did want to cater to a certain group(like rp servers and etc do) would you remain there and try to change everything to suit your needs or figure out that place isn't for you and cut your losses and go to a shard better suited for your needs?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic or factitious but i'd honestly like to know the logic that goes behind this thought process.

[sm0ke]

Fulmanar,

what YOU want and what YOU feel the shard needs are not necessarily what the shard needs. You are the only one in here defending this rule, were you the one to cause a stink in the beginning to get it in place?
The other majority of the shard (70% of which is afk macroing skills, im sure) doesn't know this rule is even in effect.

And like I said, this kind of stuff has been going on in uo FOREVER....it's safe to say 99% of all uo players of ALL TIME are aware that this can and does happen to people who demonstrate poor judgement....and its widely accepted. period. And furthermore, that uo is often about exploiting said people with poor judgement in a sandbox environment.

People make STUPID choices, they should suffer the consequences.............period.


EDIT: Dress the rule in whatever color or wording you want. Punishing people for taking items from a chest someone GAVE them access to is the very essence of carebear. Why is stealing even still enabled on this server? Looting? Pking?

Again well spoken, smashing these guys in debates gives me more relief than actually PvPing in this shard right now.

Well a turn out of 24 votes isn't very high. Not that I'm trying to skew the results, but I think it would be better if a few more of our hundreds of players had a chance to respond. But I will say that the crying about carebear rules is getting old already, see the other thread below this, I'm too lazy to repeat myself.

Yeah, try getting all 150-200 players to vote on the forums it won't happen :/, also it's not crying about carebare it's becasue it is careabre man look around lmfao

[Kennedy]

Fulm,
the no guild looting rule wasnt in place from shard birth.
It was put in for a reason? What was the reason?

Obviously, someone got guild looted (someone with some weight to their word/opinion....obviously more weight than the rest of us) and had hurt/sour feelings, threatened to either leave/no longer donate/whatever (i dont know which exactly) and the rule was put into place.
Unless youre telling me, Taran woke up one day...ate cornflakes and said, 'you know, im gonna make guild looting illegal today!' Maybe some people would buy that story....but not me....nor would 99% of people with an IQ over 25. Something happened that triggered this rule being put into place.

If this was a shard birth rule, your argument would hold water. But, its not a shard birth rule....

therefore, it was at one point catering. it was favoritism.
And the players who disagree with rules like this being put into play are just supposed to up and leave after we've put in hard work, donated, etc?

No, whoever QQ'd in the beginning to staff about it (or if it was a staff member) BEFORE THE RULE WAS IN PLAY should have been the one to go play somewhere else.

And Fulm, my posts on this topic hold perfect logic. I suppose i'm the bad guy for trying to uphold the spirit of a fel shard, though.

[Kander]

Arrrr lets install item insurance!!!!!!!!!

[Fulmanar]

Fulm,
the no guild looting rule wasnt in place from shard birth.
It was put in for a reason? What was the reason?

Obviously, someone got guild looted (someone with some weight to their word/opinion....obviously more weight than the rest of us) and had hurt/sour feelings, threatened to either leave/no longer donate/whatever (i dont know which exactly) and the rule was put into place.
Unless youre telling me, Taran woke up one day...ate cornflakes and said, 'you know, im gonna make guild looting illegal today!' Maybe some people would buy that story....but not me....nor would 99% of people with an IQ over 25. Something happened that triggered this rule being put into place.

If this was a shard birth rule, your argument would hold water. But, its not a shard birth rule....

therefore, it was at one point catering. it was favoritism.
And the players who disagree with rules like this being put into play are just supposed to up and leave after we've put in hard work, donated, etc?

No, whoever QQ'd in the beginning to staff about it (or if it was a staff member) BEFORE THE RULE WAS IN PLAY should have been the one to go play somewhere else.

And Fulm, my posts on this topic hold perfect logic. I suppose i'm the bad guy for trying to uphold the spirit of a fel shard, though.

I never said the rule was there in the beginning, in fact i've stated many times to the contrary, but what does it matter if it were there since the beginning, for all Taran cares he can wipe the world and make it the beginning, it's his shard and he does what he likes? if he made a rule saying that every player had to wear a purple hat tomorrow, everyone will have to start doing it even if it wasn't a rule since the beginning.

Your accusations of favoritism are still misplaced, neither you nor I were there and we cannot make claims to such, it also demonstrates nothing even if it was favoritism(which i'm sure it wasn't) the rule was still put into place, a rule which effects both you and I.

I am directly stating that if you don't like a situation and you dislike it and are not forced into it then yes you should saddle up and leave, if you hate a job do you not quit? if you don't want to go to the gym anymore even after you paid your membership do you not quit? No one is forcing you to stay, you have the right to play at your leisure and pace.

Now let me be forthright and state that I don't want you to leave, all i'm saying is that if this place isn't up to snuff then no one is forcing you to remain, and if you donated well, you donated to something you don't necessarily agree with because you may not have read the fine print, this happens all the time, chalk it up to a bag decision, nothing can be done about that.

And about the person in question, I don't know who it is however why should you punish the person who had grievances, this is akin to a man pushing my grandfather down the stairs and putting me in jail because I didn't put non slip tethering onto the bannister.

I didn't say your posts had no logic I said I wanted to know the logic because I do not, if I didn't like this shard i'd stop playing it, i'm not being coerced into this and I knew what I was getting myself into from the get go and so do you.

And no, you're not a bad person, I agree once more(this is the 5th time I said it) that guild looting is in the spirit of UO, but the spirit of a fel shard that you describe isn't the spirit of this one, you're upholding something that has no material existence here Taran creates the spirit here and he made it into this. We still also have to worry about the playerbase, no playerbase is no shard so either we rape pillage and burn now and find ourselves with nothing later or we build what we have no so we can rape pillage and plunder for a long time to come.

[Kennedy]

Fulm,

You are comparing UO to real life scenarios, lighten up.....I'm not talking about pushing the elderly down a set of stairs.
Your posts, to put it blunt, are also bloated with brown nosing.

Anyone with 5% or higher brain function could follow this thread. Any reason for this rule to be in place on a FEL shard has been murdered in this thread. People make stupid choices, I guess we should mold the shard around them and their brainless endeavors.

What happened for this rule to be put in to play? I'm sure we'll never find out.....unless some watered down version is released to us.
And if it was staff/player/donator catering/favoritism, do you ever honestly think that would be openly admitted at risk of killing the shard? No.

so, carebear, carebear, carebear until you have no shard left (but 10-20 vets who've put so much time and $ into their account, they can't quit) and everyone is scratching their head, wondering what happened.



For the record,
I welcome any player to lie and use deception to infiltrate any guild im in and loot my guildchests....using non exploitative game mechanics.
I welcome any thief to catch me slipping, steal my key and loot my house dry....using non exploitative game mechanics.

The role/play style of a successful thief is NOT limited to snooping and stealing skill only, like some would believe...or feel it should be.

[Fulmanar]

Fulm,

You are comparing UO to real life scenarios, lighten up.....I'm not talking about pushing the elderly down a set of stairs.
Your posts, to put it blunt, are also bloated with brown nosing.

Anyone with 5% or higher brain function could follow this thread. Any reason for this rule to be in place on a FEL shard has been murdered in this thread. People make stupid choices, I guess we should mold the shard around them and their brainless endeavors.

What happened for this rule to be put in to play? I'm sure we'll never find out.....unless some watered down version is released to us.
And if it was staff/player/donator catering/favoritism, do you ever honestly think that would be openly admitted at risk of killing the shard? No.

so, carebear, carebear, carebear until you have no shard left (but 10-20 vets who've put so much time and $ into their account, they can't quit) and everyone is scratching their head, wondering what happened.

How am I brown nosing? I agree with you, I just don't think it'll be good for the life of the shard. I made an allegory, just because you do not understand the point to it does not make it less valid. Why would you punish the victim of a crime, if I was careless and left my door unlocked at night and I was robbed do you put me in jail because I was careless? No of course not, you go after the robber.

Whether or not if it was favoritism or whatnot has no bearing on this situation, and again even if it was, it's a rule that has been made by higher powers than you or I by a man who literally pays for the shard you play on for free or in the case of donations he puts his free time into something so you may enjoy yourself, what he says goes in every form and he said that guild looting effectd the server negatively and wasn't worth the hassle to the playerbase.

The problem with the arguement is that while it's carebear to whomever, with the rue put into place our numbers increased dramatically, this is not to say that the rule caused this however we've grown in spite of this, hell you came after the rule was put into effect and you still play. Does that tell you something?