[Habibi Jones]

Ok... This is an issue with PvP that I'd like to get people's opinion about:
I'm starting to think that the current FS and light scrolls need a rework. You can literally FS someone like 7 times in a row, the trick is timing it perfectly for the kill.

Why in gods name don't FS and lightning scrolls deal the SAME damage as regs and consume the SAME mana while keeping the current cast times? This makes so much more sense to me... It would clean up the PvP a whole lot IMO.

What do you guys think? I would really like to test this.

[sm0ke]

Well, I'd be up for tweaking Flamestrike damage and Lighting damage for doing more, for example fs doing 46 dmg instead of 38 and lighting doing 18 instead of 12.

Also maybe make FS scrolls consume 24 mana and lighting scrolls consume like 5 when used on the other player

edit: that would clean up mana and the fs rate

[Habibi Jones]

Do you mean like, lose 50% of the mana for fs scroll when you d click it and 50% after it casts=same mana as regs? Little bit confused. If that's what you mean then yes that's a pretty good system, but then that brings up the fact that you can double click a scroll at the beginning of a fight and essentially have a half mana fs whenever you want. I thought about that option as well, it's a good system but it would really change the fundamental aspects of the PvP here I think.

I do like the fact that you can choose between using fs by regs or scroll, that's the cool part about how it is now that maybe we can preserve somehow. I like that reg FS still has a use.
In my opinion though, FS should always be a spell with a very high investment so that PvP isn't about just spamming FS... The good part about setting scroll damage equal to reg damage though is that you get the best of both, the serious effect of Flame Strike as well as the heavy mana cost. Then that makes reg FS useless, which kind of sucks. Possibly scrape off 5-10 mana from reg FS?

Although, if other things were changed this could be possible. If scrolls required a certain amount of AR to cast, then this would reopen use for reg FS in certain cases as well as require people to actually carry something worth looting besides mana pots if they want to PvP effectively. Gear shouldn't dictate who wins, but it should definitely have an influence on who has the advantage in a fight. Gang and I have talked quite a bit about it, there are other threads where we all discussed things like having a spell damage reduction based on armor difference. It worked pretty smoothly when we tested it actually.

Moral of the story in order to actually have a good PvP/Economy on a server (they are the same thing in this game, they drive eachother) there needs to be loot-flow and dynamic PvP... What's usually the most valuable thing on a corpse in a good size fight? Their pots/scrolls... That isn't how it should be in my opinion, I'm just throwing ideas out there and I'm curious what you guys think about it.

[Andrew]

Atm I dont even bother starting to get into PVP cause its all FS spam. Its that simple. It seems to me like theres too much spellcasting compared to IN1!
Something needs to be tweaked in order to get PVP balanced and exciting again.

[sm0ke]

Atm I dont even bother starting to get into PVP cause its all FS spam. Its that simple. It seems to me like theres too much spellcasting compared to IN1!
Something needs to be tweaked in order to get PVP balanced and exciting again.

Well there is some other spells being used, it's about who hits first and sequence on how to kill

Do you mean like, lose 50% of the mana for fs scroll when you d click it and 50% after it casts=same mana as regs? Little bit confused. If that's what you mean then yes that's a pretty good system, but then that brings up the fact that you can double click a scroll at the beginning of a fight and essentially have a half mana fs whenever you want. I thought about that option as well, it's a good system but it would really change the fundamental aspects of the PvP here I think.

I do like the fact that you can choose between using fs by regs or scroll, that's the cool part about how it is now that maybe we can preserve somehow. I like that reg FS still has a use.
In my opinion though, FS should always be a spell with a very high investment so that PvP isn't about just spamming FS... The good part about setting scroll damage equal to reg damage though is that you get the best of both, the serious effect of Flame Strike as well as the heavy mana cost. Then that makes reg FS useless, which kind of sucks. Possibly scrape off 5-10 mana from reg FS?

Although, if other things were changed this could be possible. If scrolls required a certain amount of AR to cast, then this would reopen use for reg FS in certain cases as well as require people to actually carry something worth looting besides mana pots if they want to PvP effectively. Gear shouldn't dictate who wins, but it should definitely have an influence on who has the advantage in a fight. Gang and I have talked quite a bit about it, there are other threads where we all discussed things like having a spell damage reduction based on armor difference. It worked pretty smoothly when we tested it actually.

Moral of the story in order to actually have a good PvP/Economy on a server (they are the same thing in this game, they drive eachother) there needs to be loot-flow and dynamic PvP... What's usually the most valuable thing on a corpse in a good size fight? Their pots/scrolls... That isn't how it should be in my opinion, I'm just throwing ideas out there and I'm curious what you guys think about it.

yeah half/half on click and use, you can preclick it but i mean if someone has full hp itll pretty much be a waste of mana on the use and if he has reflect you may fs your self xd

edit: also what about increasing the healing done by healing spell/scroll and maybe increasing there mana intake

[Mael]

I know no one likes the idea of not moving with casting...but that's how I remeber playing...if you had fs scroll you could move...but that was also when blank scrolls were much harder to get.....that is a reason why I don't pvp at all atm cause its just case and fs and hope the other persons healing macro fails

[Gang]

I know pretty much anyone who played thirteen years ago has warm and fuzzy memories how good and balanced it was(I'm not speaking of OSI now), but it wasn't, and server(IN or Nos) doesn't really matter. I for one remember that when I started playing on Nos I didn't use assist. These days I'd play it only at internet cafe's because it was the only place that offered somewhat decent connection. Optical fiber at home would worth as much as a car nowdays.

The guys in internet cafe played UO and were ganking in 10-15 ppl group, one of them would loudly countdown from 3 to 1 and then say: "FS!" And they'd all FS same guy. I played quake2 and starcraft there xd. But that looked kind of funny and decided to try it out. One guy from cafe had given me a ready character, bought regs and dragged my FS icon - told me to double click on icon and target on certain person as they countdown. I didn't even knew how to heal up. By the end of week I already could cast Paralyze, use bandages , cast Greater heal spell, Light , Fs and Arrow. But I still used to double click it all. I could've learned how to use UOA(only 2 guys in cafe used it then) but it wasn't necessary, as my knowledge was enough to kill people. Some of them would simply get stucked if you'd cast paralyze on them, not many people would get out of it immediately. For average player these days it would take from five seconds up to five minutes. xd


Right now however, everyone knows every tiny aspect UO, knows how to set up most advanced macros... When last time you've stumble uppon someone who didn't know something of UO?... Every damn player is pontential bug abuser. Get WarMachine on IN1 and he'd get it down right away.

Anyways, what I'm saying is that even if GH scrolls once could intake 6 mana, have 1 second delay and heal like 40hp(Canaris said it was this way), it doesn't mean that it was the most balanced way to go, the skill of people+lack of possibilities in UO options kinda solved the issue, and fights wouldn't go forever. But as people learned to play the balance tweaks were made... Seriously, take like 3 random decent gankers from this server with their macros on razor\inject and take them to IN 1 or NOS.
I'd honestly bet noone there would be able to run from them. Let alone making fair 3v3 or anything. Now everyone has heal macro, reflect macro and a ress macro set on all of his partners, they all carry all necessary types of scrolls, all of the potions and regs ofc. Many also carry recall scrolls\invis pots and have a macros set(at least seperately) on both of it. How often people had it in 2000?
I'm pretty sure it was still the most effective way to kill in groups, because if you could run while casting and FS was dealing at least 35-45 damage on IN, then it still would be the most effective way to kill people.

I'd like to hear some real information on the damage deals\mana intakes\delays on spells\scrolls on IN1... I never played there, but I know that anything we ever liked to do seem so flawless in the memories, especially when it's so fuzzy;p



EDIT: I kinda forgot to comment on the thread. I agree that FS should deal more damage, I however don't agree that it should intake 40 mana. Look Smoke I understand you loved XUO pvp and how balanced it was but trust me by just switching damage deals of two spells u would simply imbalance it. If you tweak the FS damage you also have to tweak the amount of HP gh covers, as well as mana intake for both, also XUO's poison never dealt so much damage, and you have to consider it as well. Right now, it's not the same - but it's alright man, I mean you never played on 0.55a servers if you think this PvP is really different. This PvP sure needs few tweaks but overall when I was joining I expecting it to be much worse man and was VERY surprised it's the way it's now. Mainly because I had wrong impression on Taran on INX, many of us did. I thought he doesn't PvP. I mean, he might not play now but his knowledge of PvP dynamics is extensive + he is actually listens, so if you explain why it's not balanced right now I'm sure he'll consider changing it, but the way you suggest it won't get us anywhere because you just want to make XUO pvp out of it. Not that I don't like XUO pvp anymore, because I do. Because Maka was a great admin and a great PvPer aswell, and he balanced every tiny aspect of it. Maybe if there weren't so much hostility between INers and XUOers in the past(no offence but your crew and yourself also take credit for that xd) the suggestions like yours would have chance to happen, because our two PvP systems are actually pretty same, but well, what done is done.

Anyways, what I suggest is making fs scroll deal a bit more damage ~40. I know many of INers won't like it - but maybe we'd really add another type of lights? "INX" lights or something. It was 4hp and 5mana intake on INX. I think 5hp/6mana intake would fit here pretty well... If theres any objective reason not to do that, I'd like to hear it. Because I might just not see it, and I myself plainly want a balanced 0.51a pvp system...

[sm0ke]

Well if it wouldn't work out what I suggested then, I'd like to see fs damage increased like you said and lighting damage increased a little then as well.

I Also agree with the health deficit lighting scrolls

[Habibi Jones]

Well if FS scroll damage was increased, mana cost would have to be increased as well. GH spell heal would have to be increased the same rate as fs was, and gh scroll would have to cost 2-3 less mana points IMO.

[Andrew]

Atm youre forced to use GHeal, cause Bandaging is so unstable its pathetic. Its no good for anything cause its so unrealiable..
IMO, a good tweak would be to slightly increase the FS scroll cost and lower its damage slightly..

[Gang]

There we go. Some players are thinking it's too easy to survive, others think it's too hard:/

[sm0ke]

There we go. Some players are thinking it's too easy to survive, others think it's too hard:/

:p, imo we should create a big conversation of the top players who can survive and win tour's and let them decide what the balance should be. People who don't PvP shouldn't really comment on it in my opinion..