[imported_Kandorin]

On topic, I still haven't seen any good arguments as to why we couldn't try this out for a while. I've seen some pretty good arguments as to why we should though.

we have good arguments. people just fail to realize them.

what if people in an order guild hate another order guild? they can't even attack the other order guild anymore because of this.

See what i mean?

About what you said, you are right. My bad, totally forgot about the accepting part. But if an really good order wants to attack a sucky order guild and they do not accept the war, the really good order guild can always go chaos, attack all the chaos and attack the sucky order guild.

[imported_LudaKrishna]

not if they want to stay order. they have the right to stay order if they want to, why do they have to switch to chaos?

and stop trying to make it seem like i'm directing my post to taran. I was referring to people like u,rabbi and lederoil too bad u couldn't take a hint.

[imported_Kandorin]

Well guess we all failed to realize your good arguments then (and when I say all, I'm including everyone). And you should try to make Taran and the other staff realize your good arguments, not us, since they are the ones in charge of the server. We all just give our opinions, the staff reads them and make a decision. (hope you take THE hint) Anyway off to bed.

[smoke]

Dude whatever, look people here stated good arguments like Taran said, those who are against it haven't been able to give any good arguments. So work on it

the other people who have contribuated are rabbi and others as well who won't even change their status, so I hoesntly don't know why you guys are making such a big deal out of something you won't even use. you guys used an exuse that it would make rp have a bigger role/tale, that's not true because whose going to go order and protect britan for chaos players anyways? no one there just going to recall so their suggestion doesn't even go with what they suggested

i got tired of reading so ohh well if this is a repeat

i believe cailey is being killed by her (own) guild i that's the case find a new guild

when sd used to get together an practice pvp it was nice to not get a kill counts especially for the newb.

i do however think you should get a kill count for killing other order/choas
guilds because when your in guarded town and you see a orange guy pop up you automatic know you have to fight him, fighting every green and orange dude that comes through seems like it would get old quick especially when not everyone has this mentalty to attack every guild order or chaos

ohh yah and it should only take one party to wage war
if it was meant to be that way why even have 3 types of guilds ?
you just need 2 neutral and whatever

ohh yah it should only take one party to wage war

Very good suggestions, althought the only thing I don't agree with is this

[imported_Lederoil]

what if people in an order guild hate another order guild? they can't even attack the other order guild anymore because of this...

...not if they want to stay order. they have the right to stay order if they want to, why do they have to switch to chaos?

"So, if a neutral guild hates another neutral guild, shouldn't they be able to attack them?

They have the right to stay natural if they want to, right? why do they have to switch to chaos?"

You got to be kidding me, right?

LudaKrishna & smoke, is by no doubt the two dumbest idiots on this forum and it really bugs me these two actually are able to leave comments here.

I was honestly speechless when I last night saw Luda wrote to Hiroshima in the chat box, that he (Hiro) should go to a real school and actually learn something. I had to keep rubbing my eyes till I started to realize I had the most ironic post ever made in front of me.

well if you want things you won't even use don't complain about them to ruin it for us

Agreed.

Just because they don't use it now, doesn't mean they haven't been trying it out before. Hell, I wouldn't be suprised if they have more experience of this than you have, as you seem to only have played XUO and IN-X.

This has nothing to do with the PVP itself. The "unique" PVP this shard has, doesn't affect how this works at all. So seriously, just because you see yourself as a good PVPer here, doesn't mean you know better, because as I said, this has nothing to do with the PVP-system itself.

...and Eighty, what the hell have you experienced from this? How do you think this would ruin for "them", as smoke phrased it? Jesus, your posts is unbelievable hypocrite. What makes you get the right to express your opinion about something you don't use here, like you did when you were agreeing with smoke, more than the people smoke were refering to in his post? If anyone, you have the least to do in this topic.

[Eighty Swords]

...and Eighty, what the hell have you experienced from this? How do you think this would ruin for "them", as smoke phrased it? Jesus, your posts is unbelievable hypocrite. What makes you get the right to express your opinion about something you don't use here, like you did when you were agreeing with smoke, more than the people smoke were refering to in his post? If anyone, you have the least to do in this topic.

I was agreeing to the fact that smoke said if you don't use something don't ask to get it changed. I didn't agree to leaving it as is and I didn't agree to getting it changed. Especially if the people asking to get it changed won't use it in the way they want to see it (ie: guilds who are presently neutral and will stay neutral).

If you've noticed, I've yet to say my opinion on this subject since I think it's stupid of people to ask to change things when they don't use it (I've seen it happen in the past). My other posts in this thread weren't even about changing how guilds should work. One was a comment to Rabbi about something he said and one was answering someone's question about order & chaos shields.

I hope that cleared up what I was agreeing with smoke about.

[imported_Lederoil]

I was agreeing to the fact that smoke said if you don't use something don't ask to get it changed. I didn't agree to leaving it as is and I didn't agree to getting it changed. Especially if the people asking to get it changed won't use it in the way they want to see it (ie: guilds who are presently neutral and will stay neutral).

If you've noticed, I've yet to say my opinion on this subject since I think it's stupid of people to ask to change things when they don't use it (I've seen it happen in the past). My other posts in this thread weren't even about changing how guilds should work. One was a comment to Rabbi about something he said and one was answering someone's question about order & chaos shields.

I hope that cleared up what I was agreeing with smoke about.

When you say guilds which are presently neutral won't go order, is not necessarily true. Actually, the main reason I see this should change is because I think way more guilds would consider turning to order.

First of all, how it works now, there's no point having both chaos and order, as the two aligns works the exactly the same way, basically everyone is attacking everyone no matter of alignment. The shield matter you mention is not a matter at all as you can equip both types of shield whether you're chaos or order.

Luda & smoke is complaining about people who wants to stay order and still wants to attack the both alignments. Well, I hope everyone realize how stupid that actually is, as the only difference it is now, is the name of the alignment which no-one ever will even see, except people who are aligned and will see the two types in different colors (green and orange). If people really care about this, I don't know what I'm gonna say. Note that they aren't order themselves, they're just talking how they know "some people" who strictly wants to stay order... for their part, it wouldn't change much. They'd problably experience more action and maybe at times maybe more challenges, I'll try to explain why.

Mainly for newcomers and also generally people who doesn't know the PVP more than the basics, it's not really a question if they're gonna align. Why would they? You see, normally for a aligned player here, half of the rest aligned players are friends, but for a newcomer all of the aligned players will most likely attack you. I for example attack everyone I'm not friend with as long as I think I can stand a chance, and if I see a new face, that would problably be the case. So again, why would a newcomer guild even think about align? It would just make them die alot and I doubt they'll ever experience a fair fight as long they are newcomers.

Another example is an aligned newcomer (order for example) sees an other order attacking a chaos player. The newcomer decides to help this order player, and they manage to kill him. There's at least a 90% chance the order player would start attacking the newcomer, even though he've just helped him. That's how it is on this shard and I think most of the players here can agree with me on that point.

With the new system, this wouldn't have been possible. The newcomer could easily have taken part in this fight without have to be conserned the other order player would backstab him after they've managed to kill the chaos guy. Senarios like this would me more rule than exception. They'd feel more comfortable and safe, if you wish, if they know they have other order players backing them up if he stumble upon a chaos players, at least he won't have to be afraid that they'll gang up on him.

I'm pretty sure a change like this would make people turn chaos rather than staying order, but at the same time I'm positive the order players would increase and more people would dare to align. People, newcomers as old farts would have more people to gank with, I mean, why stay order if you're not gonna attack the chaos players there are?

It'll create a solidarity between the order players and it'd be gatherings for larger fights.

I hope I managed to get the point across and you'll understand that this will problably do nothing but increase the PVP action.

EDIT:

Oh, about what you said about people commenting things they don't use. Just because they don't use it here doesn't mean anything. They might have used it elsewhere and this might actually be the only reason why they don't use it here. It doesn't tell anything about what they know about the subject, neither does it mean the players who use it here knows more about it, which is clearly shown in this thread. Try start listening to the arguments and stop assuming players who PVPs here always knows best about every little matter that somehow concerns the PVP, even in the smallest way, because that's definitely not true and LudaKrishna & smoke is the perfect example to prove this.

[imported_Apollo]

You've all made your points and we'll take it under consideration.

Thankyou.