[imported_Jiraiya]

Meh its possible to find the stangs even when people hoard them. A few of them are quite obvious too if you stumble in the general area even if the mount isn't there.

All the obvious ones your talking about here are PvM based spawns. Or areas that require solving puzzles. Ofcourse those are obvious and they arent nearly as much of a problem because, even if I see one of these up, if I cant be bothered going through the dungeon or encounter that day I'll just leave it. And I know other gm tamers do this as well. A good example is blackrock, its almost always up, but there are very few people who make the effort to go get it. If the majority of spawns were like this I think it'd be better. But it seems your moving in that direction anyway :p

My first reason is, by doing this it puts people who earned GM taming at the same playing field as someone with 40 taming and thats not how it should be. What would be the point in GMing the skill if it didn't give you an advantage or benefit... I hardly count failing less much of a benefit.

Personally I count it a huge benefit, the only real benefit. I got so sick of running around boxing mounts in and sitting there waiting for an hour or two sometimes for it to tame. During all that time, anyone can come along and kill you, so you have to remain non afk. I dont think at all that someone with 40 skill is even with someone at GM. So they both get a shot at taming the mount, so what? That guy at 40 skill is sitting there out in the world, and someone will come along, it nearly always happened to me while taming at wind or some other world spawns, this creates pvp hotspots, its a good thing. The gm tamers have already gone through that and they can run in and just quickly pick up the mount, same as now.

Another reason I don't like it is because I just don't like limiting anything. Its bad enough we have skills and spells disabled, the last thing I want is to make taming half disabled.

Er half disabled how? If you tame a spawn, then cant tame from that spawn for a period of time, thats the exact same as what there is now. I see what your saying about not wanting to stop someone from using a skill, but I just think its a fairly small modification, nothing as serious as your making it out by saying "half disabled". Its not like you couldnt use the taming skill 50% of your online time lol.

As for mount prices... well its hardly the staffs concern that tamers are greedy. They could price mounts at 500k each if they want, just don't buy from the overpriced vendors and prices will eventually drop if they aren't making money off it.
New mounts will be coming when the playerbase picks up a little more. I have a new mount that I am just itching to add but as it stands there is practically 1 mount for every active player online and thats just too much.

Totally agree with all that, although what I was talkin about was staff being able to limit the supply of mounts easily without having to change spawns around. The players buying them pretty much set the price, they will pay what its worth to them to have it. I gotta say tho, some of the "rares" that spawn are so ugly no one ever actually rides them, they are just for skill which seems kinda wasteful.

[imported_Shade]

Well I would have done some of the mounts differently and added more to them then just stumbling in. The new ones I added at least take a little time which gives others a chance to find it first or hunt you down while getting it. Though I don't like changing other staffs work, minus the fire stang because that was just out of place and we agreed it should be changed.

As for me saying that taming would be "half disabled", what I meant was that if we were to put a restriction on it then someone who only enjoys taming would lose out on the general gameplay, and yes some people only enjoy taming.

Don't get me wrong I know it sucks when people hoard mounts like they do and at best we can make them have to spend more time finding/getting them but those people typically deserve the mounts. Ask sam and theo, they spent countless time searching for mounts everytime they heard of one they didn't know about. Meanwhile someone hears about where a stang spawns and get a rune... do they really deserve the same chance at getting it as the person who spent the time getting to know the spawn? Lets also keep in mind that most mounts spawn at random times from anywhere between a few hours and a week. If someone wants to check it constantly and not accomplish much else then at least those people will likely get mounts for their time and effort.

I suppose I could make some of the mounts have more of a dangerous and time consuming element to them, well the ones that are wild but then someone else will whine about how players who don't hunt can't get them. On one hand we got players who want the mounts to be hard to get so that if they sink in the time, they will be the ones to get them and on the other hand there are players who want mounts practically handed to them... I thought how it was made it pretty balanced but nothing is set in stone really. I am willing to make changes if its what everyone wants but I would really prefer not to limit someones taming in any way. Maybe you should make a poll with some possible options and see which way people lean, that way we will both get a general idea of everyones opinion on this and not just the opinion of the people you know :p Granted you talk with most of the players but not everyone plus we have lurkers that will probably make a return sooner or later and their opinion counts too.

[imported_Jiraiya]

I see your points. It is a fairly complex thing to go messing about with. I guess it just comes down to one question though, do you want one persons ability to tame to take away from anothers? I mean I've heard of people saying they wont pvp because they dont need to ruin someone elses fun to have their fun. But if you look at taming thats kinda what happens, people who know the spawns take them all, and the ones who dont are left looking around going "what mounts?" Especially because many mounts never even enter the market.

As for me saying that taming would be "half disabled", what I meant was that if we were to put a restriction on it then someone who only enjoys taming would lose out on the general gameplay, and yes some people only enjoy taming.

I dont really see how they are missing out though? With what I'm suggesting they can still tame everything they can now, its just that when they tame something it wont be at the expense of other people, and other people taming stuff doesnt hurt them either. But you actually get even more player interaction with what I'm talking about because the mounts are always there. They wouldnt be dead zones 99% of the time anymore.

I guess I can hold a poll and see what people think, but I get the feeling people would vote against any change regardless of if its beneficial or not, I dont really feel like wasting my time. Besides, no matter if it stays like it is now, or changes to what I'm talking about, we (as in my guildmates and I) still end up with all the mounts. I'd just prefer to NOT be taking them all at the expense of other players.

EDIT: Actually I'd like to hear some more of other players opinions on what they think are the benefits and drawbacks of the way the taming/rares system currently works. I think Token's idea about the rides in the pits was actually kinda cool. I dunno how I feel about the currently spawned ones being up, my first impression is that with our current system that makes it too ezmode. But having all the rides that can spawn displayed in pits might give players more incentive to search for them.

[imported_Ryuuku]

I go say why I dont like it. Its seem very unfair for who wasted Hours and Hours (not lil hour but HUGE hours) searching for it even while they was being tamed constantly by other players. And Used ALOT money to gm the skill cause you cant train on any wild stang cause they never was there.

And now everyone who enter just need to give one run around World to find EVERY stang, while me or any other who find before had to run the world hundreds time looking for hot areas marking rune there and checking those areas where you guessed can be something and mostly of time dont had nothing and sometimes you got sucess finding a stang.

Plus with the playerbase we have now everyone just need to let the char there macroing. Sure he go die doing it but he dont go lose anything just gain skill.

[imported_Jiraiya]

I go say why I dont like it. Its seem very unfair for who wasted Hours and Hours (not lil hour but HUGE hours) searching for it even while they was being tamed constantly by other players. And Used ALOT money to gm the skill cause you cant train on any wild stang cause they never was there.

Yeah but do you really think you should have to spend hundreds of hours just to find something like a mount? I see what your saying though about people who have already found them being left with the short end of the stick. But if you think back, would it have been better for you if you had to spend something like 70 hours looking for spawns rather than several times that? Plus these people still have to do the quests to get into some of the places, or solve the puzzles/dungeons to even get to where the mounts are.

Plus with the playerbase we have now everyone just need to let the char there macroing. Sure he go die doing it but he dont go lose anything just gain skill.

Yeah thats the biggest problem with the idea I suggested, if a mount was always there people could always gain skill on them if they knew where they were. This would make gaining the skill easier for people, although with more players they'd still have to deal with a lot of people disrupting them, coming in taking the mount, killing them etc.

But on the other hand, if more of the spawns are made like chimera, charcoal, blackrock, lava, then its not so simple as just recalling there and macroing. Work is required even knowing the spawn. But all the time that mounts arent up in these places, why would you do it? Unless a mount is up your not gunna run through chimera fortress really, or yew crypts.

Also I think you might see more pvp'ers learning the mount spawns, not so much to raise taming but more to find tamers and kill them. If they knew they didnt have to invest hundreds of hours of not finding anything to get a few spawns. So that then makes it much more difficult for tamers to just sit around macroing in the wild. I mean if something like this was put in place, I'd run around trying to gank at taming spots, more people would be there more often. And I wouldnt have to feel so bad about killing some new player whos been lucky enough to find a mount to macro on, then take his mount. Cause he can always come back, or maybe try to find a different one.

[imported_Ryuuku]

Yeah but do you really think you should have to spend hundreds of hours just to find something like a mount? I see what your saying though about people who have already found them being left with the short end of the stick. But if you think back, would it have been better for you if you had to spend something like 70 hours looking for spawns rather than several times that? Plus these people still have to do the quests to get into some of the places, or solve the puzzles/dungeons to even get to where the mounts are.

If you like mounts and enjoy be a tammer you should work hard to have all spots and after it you can own it if you have the skills and wanna do it. And believe me give just a run around world to find all they dont is a hard work.

Plus these people still have to do the quests to get into some of the places, or solve the puzzles/dungeons to even get to where the mounts are.

You dont need be a genious to solve those puzzles Me and Theo did Wiz and Daemon stang in less than an hour. Black rock in less than 2 hours, for sure BR is not easy to reach, but dosnt hard to do the puzzle.

Just if someone is dumb enough to try to do it just when alive and not when dead. I did all puzzle dead cause alive is just to much work and wast of resource.

[imported_Rabbi Samild]

Taming, by nature, is a rival in consumption.

When a good is rival in consumption,?
a. people can be prevented from using the good.
b. everyone will be excluded from obtaining the good.
c. no more than one person can use the good at the same time.
d. one person's use of the good diminishes another person's ability to use it.

It's just how it goes. If you want to GM taming, go out and hunt and buy the myriad cheap ass mounts that players have generously provided to the market.

I've seen this coming since I GMed taming; as soon as people get a stock of mounts, the sell the crappy ones off for cheap for a quick buck. The only problem is, when you sell a crap colored mustang for 7k, that mustang gets sold off 3 more times and everyone gets their money back to buy more crappy mounts. Before you know it, there are 4 GM tamers, then 7 GM tamers, then 10 GM tamers. The new crap mounts are hoarded then sold off in cheap lots, allowing 4 more people to GM off it them.

So hahahaha to all of you who sold cheap mounts for a quick buck. It's not a major problem due to the size of the shard, but if there were more players it would be a tremendous problem and any one tamer would get no more than one mount per day.

Or maybe that's how you want it.

Regards.

[imported_Jiraiya]

I've seen this coming since I GMed taming; as soon as people get a stock of mounts, the sell the crappy ones off for cheap for a quick buck. The only problem is, when you sell a crap colored mustang for 7k, that mustang gets sold off 3 more times and everyone gets their money back to buy more crappy mounts. Before you know it, there are 4 GM tamers, then 7 GM tamers, then 10 GM tamers. The new crap mounts are hoarded then sold off in cheap lots, allowing 4 more people to GM off it them.

This is exactly what happens, if it wasnt happening before only because tamers refused to put those ugly mounts on the market so others couldn't gain any skill, then that is evidence of a problem. Miner's sell iron which many people use to gain tink, or bs, why wouldnt a tamer sell his crap mounts to the market. Just to stop anyone else from gaining skill and possibly taming a stang you tame? Maybe I'm just dense but it feels wrong to me to do this.

So hahahaha to all of you who sold cheap mounts for a quick buck. It's not a major problem due to the size of the shard, but if there were more players it would be a tremendous problem and any one tamer would get no more than one mount per day.
Or maybe that's how you want it.

Yeah thats exactly why I was bringing this up now, before beta ends (whenever that might be). A GM tamer only getting one mount a day if he's lucky is precisely what I'd like to not see happen.
And btw, when I was raising my taming, I did buy a fair few mounts, but mainly myth orns at 15k each for skill gain. So I wouldn't say it was dead cheap for skillgain. 6 of them (90k) for like 1.5% gain.
I was also able to gain quite a bit of skill because sandra had stopped playing, and you werent taming as much, so I found a few spawns, traded for others. It wasnt terribly difficult. But as it is right now with so many GM's going I'd have been hard pressed to find anything at all. Even knowing all the spawns already most of us only get a few a day, so they are snatched up extremely quickly.

Taming, by nature, is a rival in consumption.
When a good is rival in consumption,?
a. people can be prevented from using the good.
b. everyone will be excluded from obtaining the good.
c. no more than one person can use the good at the same time.
d. one person's use of the good diminishes another person's ability to use it.

4 reasons this current mount system sucks

[imported_Rabbi Samild]

This is exactly what happens, if it wasnt happening before only because tamers refused to put those ugly mounts on the market so others couldn't gain any skill, then that is evidence of a problem. Miner's sell iron which many people use to gain tink, or bs, why wouldnt a tamer sell his crap mounts to the market. Just to stop anyone else from gaining skill and possibly taming a stang you tame? Maybe I'm just dense but it feels wrong to me to do this.

Miner's sell ingots so that other players can gain tink and smithing. It's not the same for taming. Just because another player has GM smithing or GM tink doesn't mean that you can't smith a set of armor or make an assembly. For taming, once there are loads of GM tamers then each tamer has less of a chance of doing what they do as tamers; TAMING! Therefore, you can't put taming and smithing in the same sentence :/. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Originally Posted by Rabbi Samild
Taming, by nature, is a rival in consumption.
When a good is rival in consumption,?
a. people can be prevented from using the good.
b. everyone will be excluded from obtaining the good.
c. no more than one person can use the good at the same time.
d. one person's use of the good diminishes another person's ability to use it.

4 reasons this current mount system sucks

only one of these is a rival in consumption, d, which fits the definition. That's why it was bolded .

[imported_Jiraiya]

Miner's sell ingots so that other players can gain tink and smithing. It's not the same for taming. Just because another player has GM smithing or GM tink doesn't mean that you can't smith a set of armor or make an assembly. For taming, once there are loads of GM tamers then each tamer has less of a chance of doing what they do as tamers; TAMING! Therefore, you can't put taming and smithing in the same sentence :/. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Again, this is exactly my point. People are deliberately hindered from gaining skill by some other players because it is in those players best interest to stop anyone else gaining skill because of the mechanics of how rares spawn. Any ideas about how to do something about this? Or do you like it how it is? If so why? I'd like to hear your actual thoughts on this. So far you've just laughed at some people for selling stangs and given multiple choice questions c'mon rabs, helpful input please ;D

edit: Thinking on it, you did raise a good point about how stangs move through the market, mounts being passed back and fourth between several tamers so they all gain skill for relatively cheap. If something similar to what I suggested ever happens, there would have to be a change to that, like you can only gain skill first tame, or maybe two tames per ride instead of 5. But of course with my idea they wouldnt be forced to buy them, they can look for um and actually find one in less then 100 hours of searching. It just sorta seems silly to me to be macroing taming on a few rides in your house. A tamer should be out in the wilds gaining skill dont ya think? Setting a limit to 2 would mean only the original tamer is going to be able to profit off selling it for skillgain, if they chose to sell it. But why wouldn't they? They wouldn't be in direct competition over the resource. The rarity of the rides and thus their value would come from three things, the difficulty of finding the spawn, length of the timers set by staff, and if its not a world spawn then the difficulty of the encounter to get it. Not by how many hundreds of every type of ride a tamer can stash away from the market in his bank so as not to allow any other tamers to gain skill. Thats a falsely inflated market by a player injecting scarcity. Anyone should be able to collect many hundreds of mounts, if thats their goal, but theres no reason it should be at the expense of everyone else.

only one of these is a rival in consumption, d, which fits the definition. That's why it was bolded .

Yes believe it or not I picked up on that, what I was pointing out was all 4 actually fit with our current system. Lets have a look again.

people can be prevented from using the good(spawn) - Obviously true.
everyone will be excluded from obtaining the good - True (Although not completely, but semantics aside, true)
no more than one person can use the good at the same time - True (I'm of course applying this rule to an individual spawn, once one person tames from it, no one else can)
one person's use of the good diminishes another person's ability to use it - Again obviously true.

[imported_Token]

Well I have read a bunch of the posts on here. And some ideas I agree with and some I dont. I think there should be more mustangs spawns or llamas or Orns or Zos. That way there is more of a chance for players to go out in the wild and tame a rare colored ride give them a reason to play and if they did get the ride they could keep it or trade it or sell it. I know some of the rare colored ones you need to go thru one hellish dungeon bout damn near impossible and once u get to the end of it you can tame it with some peace in mind that no other player is going to run up and snatch it from you, which brings a idea to mind.

How about if a low skill player is taming a Myth Orn ex. No other player can run up and snatch it from the low skill player. Because that has happened to me so many times it is annoying as hell I think it should be First come First serve on taming that way any one player will have a good chance on getting skill and a rare ride to trade or sell. Because one GM tamer can tame a bunch in one day and it is no fun to go to a spot and nothing there or the GM tamer snatches it in 1-3 trys and the low skill player is at a loss.

Plus I just wanted 2 more spawns added just 2. One in Vesper Grave Yard because it is a dead zone there. And one above Minoc mines mount kindle because it can be a pvp spot if there are alot of players and be close to a town players wouldnt be to afraid to go and look for the rare ride. I know the good ones are tough to get too but a low skill player is not going to go thru a damn near impossible dungeon and try to tame a rare ride and out of nowhere a GM tamer snatchs it in notime.

How about making a few test spawns like...
Unholy Orn - only a murder can tame
Holy Orn - only tame with max fame and karma
(these are just ideas)

Last thing I would like to say. It is very tough to go tame against a gm tamer. If they GM taming then Congrats to them but they make taming not fun almost unfair. But I got most of my skill from going out in the wild and taming for 30 min to 2 1/2 hrs on one stupid ride and I have been killed tring to tame and the ride be killed also. I do admit I trapped some of them in a house or small stone tower to get some skill which wasnt much until i started trading but dag gone what was I supposed to do when u have low skill and try to tame it is damn near impossible to get anything from taming when a GM tamer is on the way there to snatch it. But there need to be some changes to make the shard fun to play it is set up very tough and challenging but I would like it alil easier and fun to play because it has lost it hopfully not forever.

[imported_Shade]

Plus I just wanted 2 more spawns added just 2. One in Vesper Grave Yard because it is a dead zone there.

There is a mount like this already...

And one above Minoc mines mount kindle because it can be a pvp spot if there are alot of players and be close to a town players wouldnt be to afraid to go and look for the rare ride.

Isn't that why we have wind spawns?

Unholy Orn - only a murder can tame
Holy Orn - only tame with max fame and karma
(these are just ideas)

This is a very good suggestion. I like this idea and will see what can be done with it.

On an added note; although taming some mounts can be a pain, since they require high taming, not all mounts are like this. As a matter of fact a few of the ones I have added have very very low taming requirements. This was done for that exact reason, so people who find it have a fair chance of taming it just as fast as anyone else. Not to mention some of them can be tricky to get and if you get to them alive you shouldn't have to spend an hour trying to tame it after going through the ordeal of getting to it.