[imported_Lindenwood]

Ill start with this:

you keep saying the same points OVER AND OVER AND OVER again, and "aggressive" because you are very insulting and condescending to everyone who makes a point that opposes your opinion

Bla bla bla man

Homeboy?^^

Things like this. You post is filled with a bunch of childish things that make me wonder if your eyes are sore from you rolling them back into your head as much you sound like you do. It is very hard to take you seriously when you talk down to everyone like you do, especially when you have nothing to justify it. I don't respect anyone who talks down to others, but most people who do such things at least have some kind of award, job title, book, car, or money to their name to back up their actions. You haven't shown us anything but more unimportant UO experience, but you keep wanting us to think you are some complete genious, while at the same time the way you talk prevents it.

You come off as somebody who thinks that his way is the only way, and is unwilling to compromise. This again makes you difficult to debate with, as you can't prove that your argument is the better one, but you also don't seem to be capable of even dreaming that an opposing argument has any merit at all.

I, too, used to be the exact same way when I was 15 and 16. Everyone on the internet was a moron, and them telling me I was just young and dumb made me even more aggressive, no matter how much worse it made me look. At first, your posts were actually quite calm and reserved, but now they are filled with an increasing number of curses and insults as your argument continues to lose steam without you understanding why.

You on the other hand seem to reply to everyone who opposes you as (ironically you say this OVER AND OVER AND OVER) "STOP COMPLAINING, WHINERZ?!?!".

No. You don't get it. You keep saying the same things over and over again, but act like they are new points each time. You act like it will have a different effect each time you say it. When I tell you to stop complaining, although typically without incorrect or otherwise l337 spellings, I mean the same thing each and every time: Stop complaining, we get it.

So far the only benefit of why a the skill rate should be slow is that so we "Earn our skills". How the **** is leaving your computer on day, after day, after day earning skills? We're not even playing the ****in game!? It's just sitting there!!! [/qoute]
This is probably the most valid of your arguments. However, this sub-debate is also one of the most subjective of them all. I personally like the aspect of the game where you can actually respect someone for what "level" they are, like any other MMORPG. You like to see it as less of an MMORPG and more of a simpler fighting game. That is fine with me, as there are plenty of other people who feel the same way as you, and have made shards to match it. However, this shard is centered around being a true MMORPG, and it is not going to venture much, if at all, from that based solely on a few subjective inputs.

Further, the simple skills are of course supposed to be easy. That is fine with me. Any skill that takes some effort to acheive (any skill that requires supplies, basically) should be much more difficult (like it is now). I could not respect a character who GMed magery with regs that only costed two days worth of hunting to buy.

[QUOTE=kano]I think the gain should be fast enough for someone who chooses not to macro 24/7, to go out and be able to actually SEE SOME SKILL gain, per hunting trip.

I havent macro'd or sparred any, and my only combat has been in hunting. After about 3 days total of playing, the following combat-related skills (from many 30-60min hunts, mostly by myself):

Archery (+10, 55)
Magery (+2, 55)
Tactics (+10, 65)
Fencing (+12, 78)
Swordsmanship (+4, 69)
Parrying (+8, 62)
Healing (+10, 59).

But I have news for you man... Come see me without GM healing and magery and I'm gonna put you down. It's that simple. Players need to be able to GM those skills WITHIN A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME, so they can actually go out and be able to defend themselves. The fact of the matter is that it is unreasonable for players to have to macro skills for a month before they can even worry about going outside guard protection and not get raped.

Heh, that is completely not true. I have 50 magery, and I have yet to fail even a greater heal spell. Sure, there is a chance of failing, but half the PvP system is about chance (how hard you'll hit, how well you'll heal, etc). I only fell to that one gank (by two people) because I was already at about 60 HP, since they ran up on me while fighting monsters.

Sure, if I wanted to stand there for 5 minutes while you tried to kill me, then GM healing would be required, but if I am truely concerned about somebody "putting me down," then I wouldnt do that, would I? And, I am not sure if you are substituting "kill people" with "defend yourself," but I definately know I could survive long enough to escape with my current skills how they are. Yes, it is going to be hard to kill a GM mage / healer without GM magery, but then again the ones who are strong enough to kill most anyone should have to work to get there, no?

Btw:
Did they fizzle 75% of their flamestrikes? No? Did they happen to mention they didn't have GM Magery before they killed you? No? Are you just assuming they don't have any GM skills because they're in platemail? Ummmm.... Yeah that might be a flaw in your logic.

Hmm. When did I mention what their skills were? I understand if might have been hard for you to understand the comparison, but that is a flaw in your reading, not my logic.

Ill simplify it a bit:
You have been spouting around that all the transferred characters have tons of gold, and extremely easy access to nice armor and weapons. However, if so, why has every PK (which are all transferred characters so far) Ive seen been wearing and using the same stuff that I got on my first day? Unless you are saying that PvP really is almost solely based on being able to FS gank people, and use healing to survive it?

Which brings me to two serious questions:

1) Was XUO PvP really mostly based on using spells to kill people? Ive now heard a few times that armor and even weapons aren't that important in XUO PvP, and also everyone seems to mostly be complaining about not having easy magery (or even GM magery).

2) This is for kano and others. Have you guys even tried to do any of the things you keep saying are impossible without those GM skills? I guarantee that two people with an average combat skill of 60 will have just as much fun fighting eachother as two with all their combat skills GMed. Just the same, one person with all GMed combats fighting against those same two people with average combats of 60, will be just as fun.

[imported_Smurtle]

The naked ganking and fighting was mostly without weapons. The scrolls and total manas made it possible to do that.

It's just not fun fighting at such a low level. I do it, but eh..it's much harder to win. I like my chances to be at best before I delve into PVP.

[imported_Kano]

Nice post Lindenwood. I feel like you agree with me on a lot of things, but you personally feel that I am a bit of a douche. Totally understandable. I really am sorry for coming off like that, but you and I have much different approaches to the game. I'm glad you are having a good time making what you consider good progress on your skills, with no macroing. Honestly, the gains you have gotten so far seem pretty impressive. However, you've noticed how my frustration w/ my progress has seethed into my posts. I'll try to keep it friendlier in the future.

To answer your questions:
1) Was XUO PvP really mostly based on using spells to kill people? Ive now heard a few times that armor and even weapons aren't that important in XUO PvP, and also everyone seems to mostly be complaining about not having easy magery (or even GM magery).

Don't know because I didn't play there, but it sounds like it probably was. I agree armor and weapons should be a bigger part of PvP, but magery is usually more effective. Magery is super important, and should be one of the most "achievable" skills. By achievable I mean having it not take weeks worth of unattended macroing, and not costing over 100k in regs (both are accurate figures with the current gain).

2) This is for kano and others. Have you guys even tried to do any of the things you keep saying are impossible without those GM skills? I guarantee that two people with an average combat skill of 60 will have just as much fun fighting eachother as two with all their combat skills GMed. Just the same, one person with all GMed combats fighting against those same two people with average combats of 60, will be just as fun.

Have I gone out pking? No. Yes, in theory i would be perfectly happy finding someone with the same skill total as me, and owning him... However, this is not reality. The time I run into someone with GM combats will outweigh however many times I run into a neophyte. For that reason, I've decided to macro my combats before getting to the real business. I know that a LOT of the more hardcore players feel this way.

However, I have gone out hunting with a friend. Lets just say a liche > us. It just irks me to go hunting when I know how much easier it will be with the proper combat skill rating.

[imported_Lindenwood]

The naked ganking and fighting was mostly without weapons. The scrolls and total manas made it possible to do that.

Ah ok gotcha. That's fine as long as it doesnt get to where it's pointless to fight with anything but scrolls and potions.

It's just not fun fighting at such a low level. I do it, but eh..it's much harder to win. I like my chances to be at best before I delve into PVP.

Well yeah of course, but it doesn't mean it cant be done. It's a given that nobody wants to have any real risk when fighting, but that isn't how the game works, heh.

[imported_Lindenwood]

Nice post Lindenwood. I feel like you agree with me on a lot of things, but you personally feel that I am a bit of a douche. Totally understandable. I really am sorry for coming off like that, but you and I have much different approaches to the game. I'm glad you are having a good time making what you consider good progress on your skills, with no macroing. Honestly, the gains you have gotten so far seem pretty impressive. However, you've noticed how my frustration w/ my progress has seethed into my posts. I'll try to keep it friendlier in the future.

Yes, we do agree on most of the things. I agree with almost everything except that the important combat skills should be easier.

Thank you for that good post.

BTW, Im glad to see that you didn't react to my comparison of you and a 16 year old . It was kindof me being a dick to see how you'd react . In politics, the best reaction to mudslinging is no reaction! So, thumbs up to you!

Don't know because I didn't play there, but it sounds like it probably was. I agree armor and weapons should be a bigger part of PvP, but magery is usually more effective. Magery is super important, and should be one of the most "achievable" skills. By achievable I mean having it not take weeks worth of unattended macroing, and not costing over 100k in regs (both are accurate figures with the current gain).

My point is actually based around the same thing, but taking the opposite approach. I think the really important skills should be the hardest to acheive (compared to combat skills, a least), just like in life (think of any useful skill and think of how much you could get paid by having that skill).

Have I gone out pking? No. Yes, in theory i would be perfectly happy finding someone with the same skill total as me, and owning him... However, this is not reality. The time I run into someone with GM combats will outweigh however many times I run into a neophyte. For that reason, I've decided to macro my combats before getting to the real business. I know that a LOT of the more hardcore players feel this way.

Of course. And with the harder skill, you will be proud when you DO acheive those high skills, and know that you will be at a definite advantage over those who have them! I know that most your feelings spawn from some vets getting essentially free skills, and I dont disagree with you there.

However, I bet you will command much more respect from others when you earn your skills the "real" way. And, from the point of view from people who transfered their skills (granted, they were probably harder on INR than on almost any other emulator-based shard, but still), you wouldnt want the skillgain of newer players to be easier, when you yourself had to work very hard to get them.

However, I have gone out hunting with a friend. Lets just say a liche > us. It just irks me to go hunting when I know how much easier it will be with the proper combat skill rating.

Hah! Well, maybe if you worked you way up it would end up a bit better, heh. Although, even with my skills, I now mostly hunt basic magical creatures (gargoyles, gazers, elementals, etc). With things like that, once you run out their mana, they are basically like fighting a troll that occasionally fights magic arrow. I typically run around healing as hard as I can for 30-60 seconds, then I run up on it with my melee weapon, and knock it down while I post on the forums :p .

[imported_Duke]

Ok look Im probably the vet who benifited the most out of all the transfers and I agree with the fact that skills are a little hard to gain, but this huge gap and problem with crafts is nowhere near as bad as you think it is. People who did get craft transfers dam well deserve them. Let me give you some figures.

INR open for lets say 1 year

number of gm
blacksmiths: approximately 5
scribes: 2 (one isnt even here anymore)
bowcrafts: 5?
mages: 20-30
alchemy: 10-15
carpentry: 5-10
animal taming: 0

[imported_Kitiara]

animal taming: more than 1 duke thats for sure

[imported_Tabion]

animal taming: more than 1 duke thats for sure

Name one?

[imported_Joe Black]

animal taming: more than 1 duke thats for sure

ROFL? where were u wen INR happened? no1 gmed taming... no1 even got close... highest taming player was probly magus and he wasnt even close to gming it

[imported_Coldrake]

I don't think anyone GMed Animal Taming on INR. It was one of the hardest skills to train, and the amount of mobs you could train at the upper levels was very sparse.

[imported_Lindenwood]

Wow, Duke, that's even less than I thought!


*edit*

BTW, I did a bit more hunting last night, and my swords, archery, and healing all went up about a point, and Ive also gone through about 400 nightshade and 300 bandages on a simple magery macro. My healing is now 61.2 (about +1 since last night, since when I stopped hunting it was at I think 60.1), and my magery is 57.9, which is about +3 since last night). Not too bad I think!

[imported_Kano]

Wow, Duke, that's even less than I thought!


*edit*

BTW, I did a bit more hunting last night, and my swords, archery, and healing all went up about a point, and Ive also gone through about 400 nightshade and 300 bandages on a simple magery macro. My healing is now 61.2 (about +1 since last night, since when I stopped hunting it was at I think 60.1), and my magery is 57.9, which is about +3 since last night). Not too bad I think!

Once again, grats on your 'impressive gain'. However, once you get above 80 the skills don't go up as nicely. This is the issue I'm trying to address here. I've been macroing 24/7 Since monday, and can say that the melee combat gain rate is fine. However, healing is killing me. I let my char macro all night, went out to breakfast, came back and only gained .9 healing (to 84.2). Are you seeeeeeerrrrrz???

Also, with magery... Yes you are seeing good gains now. But dude, you have <60 magery. Obviously it's going to go up fast. When you get it up higher, not only are going to be spending a whole shitload more time macroing, you're also going to have to spend a HUGE amount of money to afford the regs to macro it.