***Magery skillgain*** - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: ***Magery skillgain*** (/showthread.php?tid=1687)

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***Magery skillgain*** - imported_Tabion - 11-08-2007

Yeah how dare people contribute to the shard and make skill gain common knowledge

I have to say that I read the forums quite often and fail to see you ever really helping anyone. Sure maybe you pm some people... but why wouldn't you be willing to help a community rather then select few as others are doing here?
Also why are people pming you? Did they magically pull your name from a hat? If I had a question about... well anything, I wouldn't be going to you for answers. Don't see why anyone else would either.
These statistics are helping, whether it be to give other players an idea on how much they will need time and money wise or to give the staff a larger picture of how the gains are going. I cannot believe that you would complain about people trying to help.

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***Magery skillgain*** - imported_Lindenwood - 11-08-2007

Smurtle Wrote:You see. I did mention the word "gain." So, taking it exactly as you typed it, you're wrong. I guess you just misread it.

Wow.... just wow...

Smurtle Wrote:No one will view this post looking to see how fast the skill gain is. The origin-post of this thread is to state "The magery gain has been made faster." If they want an idea, they sure as hell won't ask you.

Hmm. The thread is to state that magery has been made faster. "Faster" is useless without anything to compare it to. Most people would see this and still have no idea how fast magery actually is.

Smurtle Wrote:Those numbers you posted aren't accurately reflecting everyone's gain, especially when you don't factor in exact time, or monetary ability to achieve those. If I were to happen upon this I'd find no useful information, especially from kids posting what they supposedly calculated. A few of your posts didn't even have a time frame in them.

1) Anyone smart enough to read a few times stamps and extrapolate from my posts in which a time frame IS mentioned can easily figure out how long I macroed in each session. Come on. For instance, 300 poison spells at 30 seconds each is 150 minutes which is two and a half hours. For as smart as you act like you are, Im a little suprised you couldn't figure that out.

2) Im sorry I am not so concerned about skillgain that I mark down the exact time that I started and ended macroing. Again, I play this game to have fun, not to nitpick about every little detail.

3) I really hope you didn't just try to pull the Age card about a video game. Are you seriously trying to imply that "kids" have no place in this game? Or maybe you are trying to say that "kids" dont have the ability to take one number and divide it by another in a calculator?

4) Are you really trying to challenge my "supposed" calculations? Lol, they took me 5 seconds each. And, God forbid, if you are actually trying to accuse me of lying about my gains, then that is just completely sad. Seriusly.

Smurtle Wrote:However, back to the "uselessness" of my post. It's quite useful. Anyone can ask "Omg how did you do it because I can't afford magery right now, what is your secret!?" I could then tell them. Therein lies the practicality, the simple functionality that my post dwells in.

You don't seem to understand what you are saying. The post itself is definately useless. If somebody is asking a question, or looking for an answer, then you simply telling them you know it, without actually answering any part of their question, is COMPLETELY useless to them. Now, if you had actually stated what you knew, then it would have not been useless.

Smurtle Wrote:Thank you. Thank you for mindless posting your gains to a post that just stated that magery is faster, afterwards you began to ***** about how you were slighted. Thank you.

Hmm. I don't care at all if you apprecite it or not. You likely wouldnt have the capacity to do so anyways. There are players who will find this information useful in either encouraging them to train it or discouraging them to leave the shard, since Ive given enough information regarding time frame and money amount for them to determine how difficult it might be.

The staff also seems to appreciate it:

Nox Wrote:I highly appreciate your number work Linden.

thank you

Those of us that actually posted useful numerical data in this thread are no doubt helpful to the staff just so they can get at least get an idea of the kind of numbers their changes are producing. It might not be the end-all answer you seem to be looking for, but it sure beats what you've posted.

Smurtle Wrote:I posted because I know how to macro better than you and felt like telling

Are you sure? Just for your information, gaining healing was never an original intention in my macros. I actually put the healing action in after the poisons just in case somebody tried to kill me. I didn't realize until later than poison actually hurt you when you casted it on yourself, so I was actually just pleased to see any gains at all. Then I started using magic arrow so I could get faster gains less (less mana), and to guarantee a heal attempt after each cast. Still, however, gaining healing is a secondary benefit to the macroing, as my main goal is to gain magery.

Smurtle Wrote:You silly people quote way too much. Does anyone ever just...remember what they've read?

This posting technique is typically used when you fear that the one you are debating against may not actually remember what they read or said.

Smurtle Wrote:And I have almost all of my skills higher than yours. Not just one. ;/

Want a cookie?




Ok. Ill explain it again since you probably didn't get it that time either. Lets say somebody is glancing through this thread seeing what was said about the magery increase, perhaps with hope of seeing some information they can relate to. They start to read through the posts with relevant information, and start to get a pretty good idea of what it will take. They know how much the regs costed, and I posted, at least once, key elements like how I make my money (hunting), how much I make, and how long it takes me to make it. They also can find or derive useful information like a good estimation of how long it will take them to duplicate each of the sessions.

But then, they get to your post. What EXACTLY do the find out, JUST from reading your post? Sure, they could later ask you, but they could have done that without you posting. They could also just as easily ask anyone else. Hell, by your definition, I could have just stated "I have been training magery" from the beginning, without any numerical logs, and it would have still been "useful" in that everyone could have just personally asked me about it. So, other than the fact that they now know that you, along with the rest of the shard, have been macroing, what information do they learn that is useful to them?


Lastly, the reason I have been mentioning healing at all was to compare its gains to Magery gains, because it was believed that Magery should have been much harder. Of course we can see now that I am getting consistant results showing that healing is actually now harder than magery by a notable degree. So, my mentioning of healing is still very relevant to one of the main points in the thread which was a comparison in the skill gainrate of magery to other combats, of which healing seemed to be the focus.

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***Magery skillgain*** - imported_Lindenwood - 11-08-2007

Looks like Tabion felt the same way.



And to add more useful information:

1200 Actions:
Magery: 80.4 (+1.9, 63 actions / gain)
Healing: 77.5 (+1.3, 92 actions / gain)
Eval Int: 89.3 (+2.7)
Anatomy: 95.9 (+1.3)

It is definately getting harder!

So Far Ive spent about 35k getting from 55 to 80. I casted FS several times yesterday and never fizzled once. I also gated several times yesterday and never fizzled. This was at about 75 skill points.

BTW, I estimate about 120k in regs to get from 50 to 100 magery. I could be off in either direction by a good 20k, though, since I just got into the 80s range and I dont know exactly how much harder it is going to be (but I think it will get well up into the 100s range as far as actions / gain). That is also factoring the maybe ~3k in regs it would take to get from 50-55 (15 actions / gain, times 50 gains, times 4 GP per action). That would put me at under 40k to get to 80 Magery. I estimate enother <15k to get to 85 (70 actions / gain, times 50 gains, times 4GP per action = 14000) , which is probably where Ill stop for now. 85 Magery will be plenty for PvP, plus I have more important things than Magery to spend that last 60k+ on.

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***Magery skillgain*** - imported_maxkicker - 11-08-2007

Lindenwood Wrote:Wow.... just wow...


Hmm. The thread is to state that magery has been made faster. "Faster" is useless without anything to compare it to. Most people would see this and still have no idea how fast magery actually is.


1) Anyone smart enough to read a few times stamps and extrapolate from my posts in which a time frame IS mentioned can easily figure out how long I macroed in each session. Come on. For instance, 300 poison spells at 30 seconds each is 150 minutes which is two and a half hours. For as smart as you act like you are, Im a little suprised you couldn't figure that out.

2) Im sorry I am not so concerned about skillgain that I mark down the exact time that I started and ended macroing. Again, I play this game to have fun, not to nitpick about every little detail.

3) I really hope you didn't just try to pull the Age card about a video game. Are you seriously trying to imply that "kids" have no place in this game? Or maybe you are trying to say that "kids" dont have the ability to take one number and divide it by another in a calculator?

4) Are you really trying to challenge my "supposed" calculations? Lol, they took me 5 seconds each. And, God forbid, if you are actually trying to accuse me of lying about my gains, then that is just completely sad. Seriusly.


You don't seem to understand what you are saying. The post itself is definately useless. If somebody is asking a question, or looking for an answer, then you simply telling them you know it, without actually answering any part of their question, is COMPLETELY useless to them. Now, if you had actually stated what you knew, then it would have not been useless.


Hmm. I don't care at all if you apprecite it or not. You likely wouldnt have the capacity to do so anyways. There are players who will find this information useful in either encouraging them to train it or discouraging them to leave the shard, since Ive given enough information regarding time frame and money amount for them to determine how difficult it might be.

The staff also seems to appreciate it:

Those of us that actually posted useful numerical data in this thread are no doubt helpful to the staff just so they can get at least get an idea of the kind of numbers their changes are producing. It might not be the end-all answer you seem to be looking for, but it sure beats what you've posted.


Are you sure? Just for your information, gaining healing was never an original intention in my macros. I actually put the healing action in after the poisons just in case somebody tried to kill me. I didn't realize until later than poison actually hurt you when you casted it on yourself, so I was actually just pleased to see any gains at all. Then I started using magic arrow so I could get faster gains less (less mana), and to guarantee a heal attempt after each cast. Still, however, gaining healing is a secondary benefit to the macroing, as my main goal is to gain magery.


This posting technique is typically used when you fear that the one you are debating against may not actually remember what they read or said.


Want a cookie?




Ok. Ill explain it again since you probably didn't get it that time either. Lets say somebody is glancing through this thread seeing what was said about the magery increase, perhaps with hope of seeing some information they can relate to. They start to read through the posts with relevant information, and start to get a pretty good idea of what it will take. They know how much the regs costed, and I posted, at least once, key elements like how I make my money (hunting), how much I make, and how long it takes me to make it. They also can find or derive useful information like a good estimation of how long it will take them to duplicate each of the sessions.

But then, they get to your post. What EXACTLY do the find out, JUST from reading your post? Sure, they could later ask you, but they could have done that without you posting. They could also just as easily ask anyone else. Hell, by your definition, I could have just stated "I have been training magery" from the beginning, without any numerical logs, and it would have still been "useful" in that everyone could have just personally asked me about it. So, other than the fact that they now know that you, along with the rest of the shard, have been macroing, what information do they learn that is useful to them?


Lastly, the reason I have been mentioning healing at all was to compare its gains to Magery gains, because it was believed that Magery should have been much harder. Of course we can see now that I am getting consistant results showing that healing is actually now harder than magery by a notable degree. So, my mentioning of healing is still very relevant to one of the main points in the thread which was a comparison in the skill gainrate of magery to other combats, of which healing seemed to be the focus.

if you want to contribute usefully to the thread, you are free to try as many times as you'd like.... but this isn't going to cut it


maxkicker aka: forum usefulness inspector

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***Magery skillgain*** - imported_Smurtle - 11-08-2007

[SIZE="7"]Rofl.[/SIZE]

You don't nitpick every detail, but you want details. Posts are time stamped yet you don't post the actual time you have been macroing. Doesn't have to be in minutes or seconds, but at the least hours. You're posting needless information on skills that actually look like you're hunting as opposed to macroing. You're gonna say you're not very keen to the details but you're going to try and mathematically break down a skill gain and not have the courtesy to give an average time range. Honestly, thanks for the help. You're a trooper.

I'm not challenging anyones' calculations. I don't trust yours. To be honest, I don't. I have no reason to and if I did, I don't care. The math part doesn't concern me. The end product does, therefore I go for the end product.

Aw, I do have the capacity to appreciate!! At least, things that are deserving. You're posting stupid summations of your, what, few hours of macroing or hunting? Do you need a medal or the chest to pin it on?

That's great your byproduct was healing. I posted that mine was better and faster than yours, because, well I'm ultimately an ******* to morons and quite frankly love showing you that you're taking entirely too long to macro.

If you want to help people out and the GMs, do it in private or in a thread, or forum dedicated to it. Or don't. It doesn't really matter but apparently the moment you're challenged you feel the need to break into a tyrannical raid over why you have to be right. :badgrin: This seems to be a very IN dominate trait. But that's another subject. This is "us" and this thread.

Let's not go through it again. Perhaps this, if certain circumstances a user sees that, blah blah. Doesn't matter. Most UO players don't care and usually work for the end product. The most they'll worry about is how much it will cost. At best, that's what your posts shows and at best is worth.

Who cares if you posted healing to compare it to magery about how fast it is? The fact is you did. You can't fault anyone for mentioning it after you did. You opened the gate, little fella. Apparently it's your methods and dedication ( or ability to have your computer stay on) that are the most influential.

I don't have to explain my methods since no one asked. Not much you can do there. So, because no one has responded with "Wow, Mr. Lindenwood your posts are so influential to me and my playing, please. Please show me what you're doing, calculate the money, time, percentages, over head growth, why my toilet won't flush."

You want to help, that's great. It's just funny how easy I can flush you into the realm of disregard and unhelpful bickering. Yes, this was a point I made.

Debate...eh. Okay. I'll bite. Debate is a formal, moderated discussion in which we discuss points releveant to the topic at hand. You posted on magery, in turn lead to healing and other comparisons. That left me the ground to mention healing. You tried to combat why I would even mention in a thread that involves magery when you opened the gate.

Woo, we could go on for days about how I'm right and you're wrong.

Please, regurgitate more calculations and retorts on how I'm such a big bad, wrong man!

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***Magery skillgain*** - RelinaXaroff - 11-08-2007

Who the **** cares about how long he was macroing or hunting for. He gives how many casts he did. It doesnt matter if hes hunting or macroing. Results arnt going to differ from how often he gains on killing something rather than macroing because hes doing the amount of casts he posts anyway. I for one have the shittiest most inefficient macro known to man, I might not make GM magery in two weeks, but I'll still do it in the same amount of casts as the guy that had the best macro there is and did it in the week and a half.

And to his healing, he says he gets .1 per x amount of actions, do some simple math and you can find out how many bandages he used. His other skills don't give gain per action, so therefore you can deduce that he actually did it correctly. Unless hes saying he gets x amount of healing per magic arrow cast he does, then hes just a total nimwit and then I'll agree with you.

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***Magery skillgain*** - imported_Tabion - 11-08-2007

Hey Lindenwood, thanks for contributing to this topic. Your posts are influential to us all.
There now somebody said it smurtle, find something else to whine about.

RelinaXaroff, thanks for spelling this out for smurtle so we don't have to. He doesn't seem to understand. With a little patience and love I feel we can teach him though so don't get angry with him. Just take a second to calm yourself if needed and remember that some individuals do not understand certain things the way you and I might.

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***Magery skillgain*** - imported_maxkicker - 11-08-2007

Tabion Wrote:some individuals do not understand certain things the way you and I might.

you got that right
see if you read back you would see that smurtle simply stated "Lol. My healing is higher than yours now and I haven't casted one spell or trained any combats with anyone, nor have I been hunting"
sending woddy over there into a tirade about his post being useless blah blah then just to show us what a hypocrite woody is he filled a whole page with rants against smurtle

im glad theres more of you now though mabye we can get 10 more pages of this usefull information

meanwhile back at max house im reading this and im laughing my ass off at how easily some of you get upset im betting easier than these girlies
http://www.atforumz.com/forumdisplay.php?f=157 (funny stuff)

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***Magery skillgain*** - imported_Smurtle - 11-08-2007

RelinaXaroff Wrote:Who the **** cares about how long he was macroing or hunting for. He gives how many casts he did. It doesnt matter if hes hunting or macroing. Results arnt going to differ from how often he gains on killing something rather than macroing because hes doing the amount of casts he posts anyway. I for one have the shittiest most inefficient macro known to man, I might not make GM magery in two weeks, but I'll still do it in the same amount of casts as the guy that had the best macro there is and did it in the week and a half.

And to his healing, he says he gets .1 per x amount of actions, do some simple math and you can find out how many bandages he used. His other skills don't give gain per action, so therefore you can deduce that he actually did it correctly. Unless hes saying he gets x amount of healing per magic arrow cast he does, then hes just a total nimwit and then I'll agree with you.

This is what happens when you give idiots an outlet.

I don't give one flying circus **** what his numbers are or what amount he uses. I told you, he is macroing differently than I am. He hunts, I don't need to. I can macro it straight out until it is done which of course I'm going to be done before him. He just wanted to pull out his **** and flail it about a bit to feel he like he had something to prove because he doesn't like me. Maybe vice versa too, mostly because I like being an ass, but usually I don't make the mistake in being wrong- and he hasn't been wrong, necessarily, but when assuming my post was useless- wrong. That I didn't use the word "gain"- wrong. See, when you act word for word, I'm going to call you, word for word.

If you actually want to sit and count the casts, or precount them based on how many reagents you have, DO it! Anyone who has that droll of a life can keep it to themselves.

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***Magery skillgain*** - imported_Smurtle - 11-08-2007

Tabion Wrote:Hey Lindenwood, thanks for contributing to this topic. Your posts are influential to us all.
There now somebody said it smurtle, find something else to whine about.

RelinaXaroff, thanks for spelling this out for smurtle so we don't have to. He doesn't seem to understand. With a little patience and love I feel we can teach him though so don't get angry with him. Just take a second to calm yourself if needed and remember that some individuals do not understand certain things the way you and I might.

Lol. Some people don't buy bullshit and believe in fairies. You're right.

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***Magery skillgain*** - imported_Rei - 11-08-2007

Smurtle Wrote:Rei, you're a dumb ****. I contribute quite a bit, actually. Other posts and lots of PMs to help out people who really need it.

I don't need to post mindless ****ing statistics. If I want the GMs to know I'd e-mail them or start a post called:

"Mother ****ing Statistics of Mother ****ing Skill gain which is separate from a post just stating how magery skill gain has been increased."

You sir are a attention whore

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***Magery skillgain*** - Moss - 11-08-2007

whoah this topic had way more pages than i thought. hah

good work on the magery issue. thanks

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