Fs PVP - Printable Version
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Fs PVP - imported_PedroDiLara - 08-30-2008
I am starting to think that XUOers only think pvp happens on duels and events... maybe thats why the Brit Bridge is always empty...
I have no fear to walk outside guards protection cause i know the pks and ppl who would kill me is afk os is showing how beauty they are in Pits
Fs PVP - imported_Gang-Bang - 08-30-2008
Quote:I am starting to think that XUOers only think pvp happens on duels and events... maybe thats why the Brit Bridge is always empty...Have you been in ocllo ? Try it...
I have no fear to walk outside guards protection cause i know the pks and ppl who would kill me is afk os is showing how beauty they are in Pits
Fs PVP - imported_PedroDiLara - 08-30-2008
Gang-Bang Wrote:Have you been in ocllo ? Try it...
What the hell i would do in Ocllo? Your world is just ocllo-pits, pits-ocllo?
Fs PVP - imported_Ryuuku - 08-30-2008
Ok Guys, dont go change the focus of the conversation.
Here is to talk about the pvp, not where are u and what u doing.
Fs PVP - imported_Gang-Bang - 08-30-2008
People Gank in ocllo. Cos you can avoid attacks there. And we dont like Bridge fights, cos there just those runners in guard zone without any chance to loot them. They just come from gz, Fs once , then run into Gz again. Not so funny i can say... even when we can loot them it just a junk. And yes, my world is just ocllo-pits. In pits in can duel on duel stones/events, and in ocllo i can gank with friends againest other people. And if u ask me i think it is much more funny than crafting items or staying near brit bank and "showing how beauty you are"
Fs PVP - imported_Ryuuku - 08-30-2008
Please lets get back to the thread, if wanna discuss send pm to each other, or make a thread about "how beauty we are":p
Fs PVP - imported_Gang-Bang - 08-30-2008
i think hate said all what was possible already and i am 100% agree with him...
Quote:Bottomline, the spam is here for a good reason, not just for annoyance or because the PvP was too easy to survive against before it was added. We will NOT be removed it ever because it is a huge part of the XUO legacy and it has a very important purpose. I'd also like to point out the fact that when we merged with Imagine Nation we agree'd on that the XUO PvP-style would not be changed, so that won't happen, however we will try to BALANCE it by setting delays on spam etc, to make everybody whose new to the shard have an easier time to adept to it.
Fs PVP - imported_Hate - 08-30-2008
Shade Wrote:I am pretty sure I said I would hit someone with a plate if they told me to try something I didn't like... Do not assume I didn't try it, assume I hated it. I do not enjoy limited tactics.There is no limited tactics, you can do anything you like, you can probably even try to kill somebody with harm if that's what you want, it's just that people tend to narrow it down to the strongest and fastest spells for PvP, and that's not because the pvp style is limited, but because people think these are the most effective for their PvP style.
Shade Wrote:Didn't one of the XUO side staff members say it was added because duels would take hours? I don't feel like searching for that comment but I am sure I read something along those lines.That was probably me, but after reading my last post you must've seen that what I really ment was that it takes hours when really good players fights each other, not when random people do. However even then it can slow things down a bit, but still it's not because of the that the PvP is too "soft/easy going" or whatever, but simply because you can see when somebody does an attack if you don't spam, so the spam hides it and makes the PvP more advanced and more fun.
Shade Wrote:Anyway, I will agree that the scrolls are a great feature and its nice to list all the things that are unique about xuo pvp but what about all the things taken away... You have narrowed down variation so much that spam is needed I suppose but maybe if you made more then two attack spells worthwhile it would be nice (regarding armored players). What about stat potions, curses and blesses? All I see is hallys or bards... I wonder why.
More than two spells worthwhile? I don't want to argue with you in front of the players but sometimes you tend to say stuff that you rly don't know anything about, and when you do you make people believe it is that way since you're a staffmember. So once again, more than two spells worthwhile? Seriously, there's LOTS of spells worthwhile, I can make a list for you later.
Shade Wrote:This pvp is limited and I still stick to my statement. I mean unless you want to say every pvper here doesn't know what they are doing, because I see the same thing day in and out with little to no variation. This style may have been effective when it was created but patterns are formed and people tend to repeat what works for them.The people who bothers to PvP are usually good players, or players trying to be as good as the good players, so they use whatever attacks the good people uses, but it's STILL not just two spells worthwhile like you said, there's several spells, it may not look that way when you OBSERVE duels the way you do, but if you'd give the pvp a shot (which you already said you wouldn't) you'd see that.
Shade Wrote:What bothers me is the fact that nobody who is accustom to this pvp will admit that it could be better.We try to improve it every day by for example limiting the spam, but we are not changing it in DRASTIC ways unless there is really good reasons for it, and so far there hasn't been any good suggestions that would improve the PvP, and since you haven't tried the PvP more than a couple of duels you rly can't know how to improve it, because in order to be able to improve something you need to have tried it first, and no I do not mean once or twice.
Shade Wrote:I see potential here, great potential and yet no desire to make it better.There is always a desire to make it better, you've just got to come with good suggestions. We listen to every suggestion we get, but most things is from former IN players who wants it to be more like IN and has not given it the chance to actually see why the suggestions would not work combined with our current PvP, and there for we can't add these changes. So once again, try it out a bit more, and then give suggestions, and yes I already heard that you won't try it, so then don't try to change things either.
Shade Wrote:Sorry for the rant I am just tired of hearing that I should try it more and I will like it. I will not. It isn't for me, it isn't for a lot of players.
P.S. Seeing only:
Kal Vas Flam
In Vas Mani
Port Ort Grav
is much more deceiving then:
Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam
I agree, a spam of "Kal Vas Flam, In Vas Mani, Kal Vas Flam" is a lot better than one saying Kal Vas Flam all the time, but since when did I defend 50 flamestrike-spells in a row? I'm just saying that spam is good, not that it's good when you spam 24/7 and the same spam all the time.
For example by spaming flamestrike all the time you're letting everybody know when you cast other spells, because those will be shown, and the only spell hidden will be the flamestrike, so that spam actually sucks. One showing several different spells in it is a lot better in my opinion.
Regards,
Hate
P.S: Curse and Bless was bugged at sphere and was there for not used there. The XUO PvP is from Sphere and there for those spells have not been balanced into the XUO PvP. I do not think that we can balance them into the PvP without messing up the current PvP either tho. If bless would give you more strength/health then everybody would just use it on themselves 24/7 and all the current balanced spells would be too weak since everybody would have more than 100 hp. And for course - well if you know a good way to balance it into the PvP then go ahead and suggest something, but if not then let it stay the way it is.
Fs PVP - imported_Shade - 08-30-2008
Hate Wrote:There is no limited tactics, you can do anything you like, you can probably even try to kill somebody with harm if that's what you want, it's just that people tend to narrow it down to the strongest and fastest spells for PvP, and that's not because the pvp style is limited, but because people think these are the most effective for their PvP style.
So almost everybody who pvps daily is wrong? Don't take that the wrong way but for me, the more I pvp the more I find the best tactics for me. Here it seems that everyone hasn't found their own but instead they found the way you must pvp.
Quote:That was probably me, but after reading my last post you must've seen that what I really ment was that it takes hours when really good players fights each other, not when random people do. However even then it can slow things down a bit, but still it's not because of the that the PvP is too "soft/easy going" or whatever, but simply because you can see when somebody does an attack if you don't spam, so the spam hides it and makes the PvP more advanced and more fun.
I don't feel it should take hours for the top pvpers to finish a duel. That to me sounds like an element of attack is missing.
Quote:More than two spells worthwhile? I don't want to argue with you in front of the players but sometimes you tend to say stuff that you rly don't know anything about, and when you do you make people believe it is that way since you're a staffmember. So once again, more than two spells worthwhile? Seriously, there's LOTS of spells worthwhile, I can make a list for you later.
Aye, I may not be an expert on this but I am no fool either. What I should have said was damage spells, rather then attack spells. With this system it seems illogical to use anything but light and fs to damage, MAYBE an occasional harm.
Quote:The people who bothers to PvP are usually good players, or players trying to be as good as the good players, so they use whatever attacks the good people uses, but it's STILL not just two spells worthwhile like you said, there's several spells, it may not look that way when you OBSERVE duels the way you do, but if you'd give the pvp a shot (which you already said you wouldn't) you'd see that.
I did try the pvp at the very beginning of the merge. I had a player who played on IN and XUO teach me the basics plus I read the pvp guide so I do have a decent understanding to how it works. It doesn't take an expert in something to know if it needs fixing though. *puts his foot through the tv* hmm im not an electronics expert... but I still know its broke. Anyway I will not try it again because it bores me and I find it to be imbalanced.
Quote:We try to improve it every day by for example limiting the spam, but we are not changing it in DRASTIC ways unless there is really good reasons for it, and so far there hasn't been any good suggestions that would improve the PvP, and since you haven't tried the PvP more than a couple of duels you rly can't know how to improve it, because in order to be able to improve something you need to have tried it first, and no I do not mean once or twice.
I do not agree with that. I can try something once or twice and know it could be better. That isn't to say I am going to fix it.
Quote:There is always a desire to make it better, you've just got to come with good suggestions. We listen to every suggestion we get, but most things is from former IN players who wants it to be more like IN and has not given it the chance to actually see why the suggestions would not work combined with our current PvP, and there for we can't add these changes. So once again, try it out a bit more, and then give suggestions, and yes I already heard that you won't try it, so then don't try to change things either.
I know lots of IN players who gave it a shot for a month or two, some even longer, and then left. Mainly due to the fact that for a year everytime a suggestion was made they would get WE ARE NOT CHANGING IT! So yeah, they left.
Quote:I agree, a spam of "Kal Vas Flam, In Vas Mani, Kal Vas Flam" is a lot better than one saying Kal Vas Flam all the time, but since when did I defend 50 flamestrike-spells in a row? I'm just saying that spam is good, not that it's good when you spam 24/7 and the same spam all the time.
For example by spaming flamestrike all the time you're letting everybody know when you cast other spells, because those will be shown, and the only spell hidden will be the flamestrike, so that spam actually sucks. One showing several different spells in it is a lot better in my opinion.
I guess I should have spammed a bunch of wops not just one to prove my point. Limiting the use of not only spam in general but how often you can use each one would help. This way players would have to choose when they make a combination of wops. By doing so it would more likely confuse an opponent.
Quote:P.S: Curse and Bless was bugged at sphere and was there for not used there. The XUO PvP is from Sphere and there for those spells have not been balanced into the XUO PvP. I do not think that we can balance them into the PvP without messing up the current PvP either tho. If bless would give you more strength/health then everybody would just use it on themselves 24/7 and all the current balanced spells would be too weak since everybody would have more than 100 hp. And for course - well if you know a good way to balance it into the PvP then go ahead and suggest something, but if not then let it stay the way it is.
Fine they didn't work correctly on sphere... this isnt sphere though, now we have the chance to make them work like they should have back then. Seriously though, think about the fact that there are 64 spells, exclude summons and fields and that drops down to about 50 (dont feel like counting) now tell me, how many do use in pvp? Now tell me how many could be used in pvp...
Fs PVP - imported_Hate - 08-31-2008
Shade Wrote:So almost everybody who pvps daily is wrong? Don't take that the wrong way but for me, the more I pvp the more I find the best tactics for me. Here it seems that everyone hasn't found their own but instead they found the way you must pvp.There is really no specific way you "must" pvp except for that you have to first hit somebody (if he knows how to heal), and then use strong offensive spells to kill him when he's low on health. Now how to do that is all up to you, there's several ways.
- You can trick him into dumping on you, then magic reflecting yourself to get him to kill himself.
- You can heal from 3-4 xuo fses and then flamestrike back when he's low on health to kill him.
- You can hit him real hard, make him drink a pot, then hit him real hard again and finish him off with a few flames and lights.
- If he's naked u could just use energy bolts on his ass instead, way better vs naked.
- You could also make a sneaky flamestrike dump of several flamestrikes when he's taken a pot and isn't ready for it.
- If you want to stop a dump somebody's doing at u (with almost any scroll) u could just paralyze his ass, causing him to be unable to use anymore scrolls until he removes the paralyze with a harm, magic arrow, or anything else with low damage.
- If you're in the woods u can cast a wall of stone in front of your enemy to make him fizzle a dump and give time for u to get away.
- Same goes for invisiblity, u can hide during a dump with invisibility as well, if used combined with a spam u can probably surprise your enemy good.
- u can poison somebody, either with a poisoned weapon or the spell, and that'll be like a few extra dmg every now and then.
- If somebody magic reflects himself you'll have to be ready with either a magic arrow or harm to get rid of the reflect and then fast make an offensive attack.
I can go on and on.. same goes for ways to heal..
Greater heal scrolls are really fast but takes a lot of mana. Normal greater heals are about as fast as an FS scroll, so keep that in mind. Reflect scrolls are about as fast as a flamestrike scroll as well.
Now use all of this wisely and you'll have lots of variety in PvP, there's lots more too, I know that there's a few spells that aren't that great in this PvP, but hey - some spells always has to be "less good" for PvP at any shard.
We can probably make it so that if u weaken somebody with the weaken spell he hits a lil weaker or whatever, and let the "strength" spell let u hit a lil harder. But it all feels kind of minor changes in my eyes, and it's not going to change the PvP much, so which other spells are you missing since we apparantly only use two spells here at IN-X?
Shade Wrote:I don't feel it should take hours for the top pvpers to finish a duel. That to me sounds like an element of attack is missing.Not at all, they are both just good at turning the duel around. First one guy is being attacked, then he turns it around and the other guy is attacked for a while, etc etc. Most duels does not last two hours but the fact that duels CAN last two hours if the players both are really really good is one of the charms about UO and this PvP in my opinion.
Shade Wrote:Aye, I may not be an expert on this but I am no fool either. What I should have said was damage spells, rather then attack spells. With this system it seems illogical to use anything but light and fs to damage, MAYBE an occasional harm.Flamestrike is the strongest one so of course it's being used a lot. Lightning is a quick attack with medium damage, so it's used a lot too, but that doesn't mean the other ones suck. Even tho this PvP does have a few "most used spells" doesn't mean that it's bad, now does it?
Shade Wrote:I did try the pvp at the very beginning of the merge. I had a player who played on IN and XUO teach me the basics plus I read the pvp guide so I do have a decent understanding to how it works. It doesn't take an expert in something to know if it needs fixing though. *puts his foot through the tv* hmm im not an electronics expert... but I still know its broke. Anyway I will not try it again because it bores me and I find it to be imbalanced.And here's another situation: *buys a computer*. HEY, its broken, my internet isn't working! <- now what's the most likely case, is it broken or has this person not learned how to get it working yet? (by reading manuals etc etc)
Shade Wrote:I do not agree with that. I can try something once or twice and know it could be better. That isn't to say I am going to fix it.It's up to each and everyone of us to have their own taste. But you could also think that "hm, these people seem to love this PvP, I guess there must be something fun below all that spam? perhaps I should try it for a while". But yeah, there will always be people like that, trying it once and be like "oh, they spam, and I died from a flamestrike, this pvp sucks, all they do is flamestrikes". Does that mean that it sucks, or that he thinks so cause he saw it for 5 seconds and didn't like his first impression?
Shade Wrote:I know lots of IN players who gave it a shot for a month or two, some even longer, and then left. Mainly due to the fact that for a year everytime a suggestion was made they would get WE ARE NOT CHANGING IT! So yeah, they left.Yeah, because we merged with Imagine Nation and were promised to get to keep our PvP, and then every IN-player wanted their PvP instead, and didn't even give this PvP a chance. The few that did are still here, the rest is gone, hopefully they'll come around in the future and give it another shot, and most likely see why we don't think that this PvP sucks (after trying it for more than 5 minutes).
Shade Wrote:I guess I should have spammed a bunch of wops not just one to prove my point. Limiting the use of not only spam in general but how often you can use each one would help. This way players would have to choose when they make a combination of wops. By doing so it would more likely confuse an opponent.The whole point of the spam is that people won't have to see almost any real spell, but instead have to guess what it is and predict what will happen, that's what's fun. If we limit it so that ppl can do it once every 20 seconds or whatever it will just ruin the whole purpose of the spam, because you won't be able to use it when you have to in most cases..
Regards,
Hate
Fs PVP - imported_Hate - 08-31-2008
Shade Wrote:Fine they didn't work correctly on sphere... this isnt sphere though, now we have the chance to make them work like they should have back then. Seriously though, think about the fact that there are 64 spells, exclude summons and fields and that drops down to about 50 (dont feel like counting) now tell me, how many do use in pvp? Now tell me how many could be used in pvp...
[SIZE="4"]So you decided to ask for the list anyways, fine, here we go..[/SIZE]
Green text = used. Red text = Not used.
Clumpsy <- not used for PvP atm, but it was used in the past at XUO to remove magic reflection without removing a paralyze. Perhaps it'll return in the future, who knows.
Feeblemind <- Not used.
Heal <- Used by good pvpers who doesnt want to waste 11 mana on a greater heal spell when all they need is a 10 hp heal.
Magic Arrow <- Used instead of harm by some people to remove magic reflection, due to the fact that harm causes more dmg to yourself when it reflects back than the magic arrow does.
Reactive Armor <- Not used.
Weaken <- Not used but won't affect the way PvP plays out even if u can use it for a pvp purpose rly.
agility <- The reason why this isn't working atm is because we don't want the dex to change, because if it does then the balancement of the PvP will be messed, I'm sure u can see why.
Cure <- Used to cure poisons during pvp.
Harm <- Used as a last-dmg-attack when somebody is rly low on life, or when u want to remove magic reflection. Some people also use it as a starting attack when they start the duel.
Protection <- used to get more armor when the duel starts.
strength <- same deal as with agility, it'll mess the balancement up, plus if u get more strength u get more HP, and that means all spells will be too weak.
Bless <- Same deal as with strength and agility.
Fireball <- Not used by anybody I've seen, since it costs about as much as lightning but isnt as good.
Poison <- Used to poison people during pvp, can be a slow painful death unless they cure ^^
Wall of Stone <- can be used for pvp out in the woods to make ppl fizzle attacks.
curse <- not used, but if u find a good use for it at our pvp then feel free to discuss it.
Greater Heal <- very much used when u need to heal yourself pretty fast but without wasting too much mana.
Lightning <- Fast attack with medium damage and low mana cost, very useful in pvp.
Mana Drain <- not used. If it'd be used everybody would just sit and drain each other until they're both out of mana, the person to drain the other guy first wins, pretty much. That's how most duels I do with my priest vs other priests in WoW feels like btw ^^
Recall <- used to escape combat.
Blade Spirits <- used by some people to get a lil helper in PvP, I sometimes summon a blade spirit for fun when duelling people, to piss em off
Magic Reflection <- very much used in pvp. Very good to reflect back flamestrikes or other strong attacks at the opponent.
Mind blast <- not used much, but CAN be used, just not that great in my opinion.
Paralyze <- very much used, mostly in ganking pvp but also in duels if u need to run away from your opponent or just wants to freeze him so he can't use scrolls.
energy bolt <- very much used in pvp, mainly in naked duels since they are very strong vs naked people, and doesnt take that much mana.
explosion <- havent rly used it much at sphere-pvp, but it's pretty much as good as a flamestrike probably, just not very much used by most people.
invisibility <- used to escape combat or to just hide and dump your enemy.
Chain lightning <- used to housekill people at sphere (lol). Nah. Used by few people ganking against many people just to try and kill them with timed chain lightning.
Flamestrike <- very strong powerful spell with medium mana waste, it's a very powerful spell and very used in pvp and ganking.
mana vampire <- I suppose this is the same deal as mana drain.
Energy Vortex <- can be used for pvp the same way as blade spirits. I've killed several people by throwing an energy vortex and them and then flamed them while they got hit by it.
Ok, that's all. I think that's quite a few skills used for PvP, now don't you think?
Regards,
Hate
Fs PVP - imported_Kilala - 08-31-2008
Most of those spells that you listed do not fall into common circumstances during PVP. I think he was referring to every day PVP
PVP Consists of 2 things, and 2 things only.
Attack : Energy bolt (Only if naked) Flame Strike, Lightning, Magic arrow OR Harm.
Protective : Heal, Protect, Magic Reflect. Invis (Once in a blue moon)
And where does EV/Blade Spirit/Chain Lightning come from? never once have I seen someone use that during a battle.
I thought we were talking about PVP, not PVM.