Imagine Nation Forums
Fs PVP - Printable Version

+- Imagine Nation Forums (https://in-uo.net/forums)
+-- Forum: Imagine Nation: Xtreme archive (https://in-uo.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=5)
+--- Forum: General (https://in-uo.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=15)
+--- Thread: Fs PVP (/showthread.php?tid=2909)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6

Fs PVP - imported_Lederoil - 08-30-2008

Shade Wrote:I should also add that I thought it would be nice for one staff member to help voice the opinions of this side of this argument, since all the others seem to stand up for the other side. :p


Thumbs up for that!

Fs PVP - imported_Ryuuku - 08-30-2008

Shade Wrote:Or maybe some players just see it as a lame fix for an imbalanced pvp. If it was too easy to survive before spam then maybe the pvp should have been tweaked a bit to fix that. It isn't hard or scary to figure out spam... it annoys people. Plain and simple. I hear all the time, just get used to it.. but really who wants to get used to something they don't like in the first place. For instance, broccoli is gross and tastes horrible. If someone told me to keep eating it until I liked it I would shove it down their mouth and then slap them with my plate. Since people can't do that here they just leave :p

The above statement is based off many friends' opinions who have left this shard or decided they did not want part in it. I too understand their gripes with it and will voice out what they would have said if they were here. So consider this as a statement made by a few not just one... well minus the broccoli part.

I should also add that I thought it would be nice for one staff member to help voice the opinions of this side of this argument, since all the others seem to stand up for the other side. :p

Allys are always welcome.....and agree with all that he said, some pleople can leave, like already that it.

Dont pass about leaving in my head, cause the other things are balanced and good like craft and pvm, either I love IN and if stop playng here I stop with UO at all.

Fs PVP - imported_Ryuuku - 08-30-2008

Hate Wrote:They don't like the spam because they do not understand it, it takes time to learn how to be good against spam, and why it is useful. It was added to make PvP harder.

Regards,
Hate

How I already said I dont think Spam is more harder than Inteligency cast in the exact hour to dont get fizzled by ur opponet when he see u casting.

But opinions are opinions, everybody haver urs

Fs PVP - imported_PedroDiLara - 08-30-2008

I dunno if spam is good or bad on that boxes(1x1, duel etc...)

But, as I said:
PedroDiLara Wrote:I've got an exemple... think youre walking around the map when you suddenly find another player, youre blue and he is too, you dont mean to fight, but he starts spamming power words. You, afraid of what can happen with your things in your bag or armor on body, just really attack and get crim... now he can kill you with no kill count... or am I wrong?

I dont want to be tricked with this spam

Fs PVP - imported_Ryuuku - 08-30-2008

PedroDiLara Wrote:I dunno if spam is good or bad on that boxes(1x1, duel etc...)

maybe for me only can be good if is 1 span each 4 sec, cause I think with it the opponet have to think alot more if is a real cast or only spam.

Fs PVP - imported_Hate - 08-30-2008

Shade Wrote:Or maybe some players just see it as a lame fix for an imbalanced pvp. If it was too easy to survive before spam then maybe the pvp should have been tweaked a bit to fix that. It isn't hard or scary to figure out spam... it annoys people.

We added the spam to give the PvP a surprise-moment to the pretty predictable basic sphere-pvp, but before we did that we balanced it in several ways which I will describe more detailed below. Other shards instead made it weapon-based, by making the duel depend completely upon what weapon and armor you have pretty much, and whoever had the better gear won the duel. We do not want it to be like that at IN-X, we want it to be about how good you are at mastering a very complex and advanced PvP-style, and not about who finds the best weapon, because that to us isn't really what PvP should be all about.

These are a few of the features that we've changed from the basic sphere PvP to make IN-X have a complex, advanced, but yet hard and at the same time fun PvP-style:

These are all features that we've added to make the PvP harder and more complex than the original Sphere PvP, but none of these things has transformed the original Sphere PvP into something "too easy to survive against", quite the oposite actually. Like I said in the beginning of this post, the spam is used above all this as an extra feature to add some surprise to the PvP, since it's pretty boring if you know exactly when people cast things.

I've seen some people say "spam is useless, of course the spamming guy will cast a flamestrike if he hits me below 46 hp, and of course he'll heal if he is being hit for 20 damage", but that is so wrong and shows just how little these people know about our PvP style.

For example: If somebody hits you below 46 hp then he's most likely just going to spam and NOT flamestrike for real, to make you drink a potion, because he does NOT want to waste his mana on attacks that will fail. The spam will here be used as a "fake-attack" to make people believe that he is flamestriking, when he really isn't, so that the guy hitting u below 46 hp will flamestrike you right away is so wrong.

Secondly, if your target is hit for 20 damage then there's several surprize-things he can do that you have to keep in mind, he will NOT just be casting a greater heal like these people said. Why? Because if he'd cast a greater heal everytime he'd get hit for 20 damage then he'd be out of mana in notime. Most people tend to PRETEND with a fake spam that they're healing, while they in fact are using a bandage. They may sometimes use small minor heals as well, or a reflection scroll if they think that you may be flamestriking behind your spam.

Either way, I can go on and on forever about this, but we did NOT add the spam because it was too easy to survive without it, because it seriously is NOT easy for people who aren't really good at this PvP to survive at it, but instead we added it to give the good players a bit of a bigger challenge, to make it even harder for THEM, but also to make the PvP-style more complex, by adding this surprise-moment.

Bottomline, the spam is here for a good reason, not just for annoyance or because the PvP was too easy to survive against before it was added. We will NOT be removed it ever because it is a huge part of the XUO legacy and it has a very important purpose. I'd also like to point out the fact that when we merged with Imagine Nation we agree'd on that the XUO PvP-style would not be changed, so that won't happen, however we will try to BALANCE it by setting delays on spam etc, to make everybody whose new to the shard have an easier time to adept to it.

Shade, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you one of these players who comes from the IN side of the merge and hasn't really PvPed a lot here yet? So please, go PvP a bit, see what this PvP is like, and after you've done that feel free to come back here and tell me if you still think that spam is like your broccoli, but either way it's not going to change in major ways, the only thing we'll do to change it is balance it by setting delays etc, but the rest is up to you and everyone else to get used to.

I may sound a lil harsh but that's because everybody whose posting saying how annoying and pointless the spam is has not given it a fair chance really, and I think that is sad because the spam really has a good purpose here, and I'm pretty sure that you'll all see it if you'd give it a chance. We will however (like I said above) do all we can to balance it as much as possible, to remove the annoyance, but without removing the spam.

Regards,
Hate

Fs PVP - smoke - 08-30-2008

Hate Wrote:We added the spam to give the PvP a surprise-moment to the pretty predictable basic sphere-pvp, but before we did that we balanced it in several ways which I will describe more detailed below. Other shards instead made it weapon-based, by making the duel depend completely upon what weapon and armor you have pretty much, and whoever had the better gear won the duel. We do not want it to be like that at IN-X, we want it to be about how good you are at mastering a very complex and advanced PvP-style, and not about who finds the best weapon, because that to us isn't really what PvP should be all about.

These are a few of the features that we've changed from the basic sphere PvP to make IN-X have a complex, advanced, but yet hard and at the same time fun PvP-style:
  • We added scrolls for every spell, which are faster than the original spell, and harder to survive against.

  • We also added so that you loose some HP when you use some scrolls, because they take less mana to cast. We figured since they take less mana you have to risk it a bit instead, so there for you loose health when you use it. For example XUO flamestrike scrolls and lightning scrolls takes life when you double-click them, but less mana than the "normal" flamestrike scrolls that only takes mana (but more mana).

  • We also made rly powerful scrolls like greater heal scrolls and magic reflection scrolls (which has very low cast time) take A LOT of mana so that it won't be abused, but instead just used wisely, because if you use it too many times in a row then you'll end up with 0 mana and be melee'd.

  • We also Removed total manas and instead just kept normal mana-potions, because the total manas gave you too much mana and there for made it too easy to survive.

These are all features that we've added to make the PvP harder and more complex than the original Sphere PvP, but none of these things has transformed the original Sphere PvP into something "too easy to survive against", quite the oposite actually. Like I said in the beginning of this post, the spam is used above all this as an extra feature to add some surprise to the PvP, since it's pretty boring if you know exactly when people cast things.

I've seen some people say "spam is useless, of course the spamming guy will cast a flamestrike if he hits me below 46 hp, and of course he'll heal if he is being hit for 20 damage", but that is so wrong and shows just how little these people know about our PvP style.

For example: If somebody hits you below 46 hp then he's most likely just going to spam and NOT flamestrike for real, to make you drink a potion, because he does NOT want to waste his mana on attacks that will fail. The spam will here be used as a "fake-attack" to make people believe that he is flamestriking, when he really isn't, so that the guy hitting u below 46 hp will flamestrike you right away is so wrong.

Secondly, if your target is hit for 20 damage then there's several surprize-things he can do that you have to keep in mind, he will NOT just be casting a greater heal like these people said. Why? Because if he'd cast a greater heal everytime he'd get hit for 20 damage then he'd be out of mana in notime. Most people tend to PRETEND with a fake spam that they're healing, while they in fact are using a bandage. They may sometimes use small minor heals as well, or a reflection scroll if they think that you may be flamestriking behind your spam.

Either way, I can go on and on forever about this, but we did NOT add the spam because it was too easy to survive without it, because it seriously is NOT easy for people who aren't really good at this PvP to survive at it, but instead we added it to give the good players a bit of a bigger challenge, to make it even harder for THEM, but also to make the PvP-style more complex, by adding this surprise-moment.

Bottomline, the spam is here for a good reason, not just for annoyance or because the PvP was too easy to survive against before it was added. We will NOT be removed it ever because it is a huge part of the XUO legacy and it has a very important purpose. I'd also like to point out the fact that when we merged with Imagine Nation we agree'd on that the XUO PvP-style would not be changed, so that won't happen, however we will try to BALANCE it by setting delays on spam etc, to make everybody whose new to the shard have an easier time to adept to it.

Shade, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you one of these players who comes from the IN side of the merge and hasn't really PvPed a lot here yet? So please, go PvP a bit, see what this PvP is like, and after you've done that feel free to come back here and tell me if you still think that spam is like your broccoli, but either way it's not going to change in major ways, the only thing we'll do to change it is balance it by setting delays etc, but the rest is up to you and everyone else to get used to.

I may sound a lil harsh but that's because everybody whose posting saying how annoying and pointless the spam is has not given it a fair chance really, and I think that is sad because the spam really has a good purpose here, and I'm pretty sure that you'll all see it if you'd give it a chance. We will however (like I said above) do all we can to balance it as much as possible, to remove the annoyance, but without removing the spam.

Regards,
Hate

I could not have put it in better words. Thank you for your time you spent to write this maybe some people will give things a try now instead of just coming on the forums and complaning about the pvp.

Fs PVP - imported_Ryuuku - 08-30-2008

Hate Wrote:I may sound a lil harsh but that's because everybody whose posting saying how annoying and pointless the spam is has not given it a fair chance really, and I think that is sad because the spam really has a good purpose here, and I'm pretty sure that you'll all see it if you'd give it a chance. We will however (like I said above) do all we can to balance it as much as possible, to remove the annoyance, but without removing the spam.

I'm dont tryng to remove the spam totatly but change the name from spam to Fake spell, I dont think its for hide ur spell but to trick ur opponent, cause I think 2 spam per second is to much when u are looking to a person pvp the only thing u see is Kal Vas Flam in the screen, and it dont go trick the other person, I think trick is make ur opponent think u are casting , spamming 2 per second the opponent only have to get luck to find the true spell , But with less like 1 per 2 second , the other have to think better if it is only spam or a real FS

Fs PVP - imported_Shade - 08-30-2008

Hate Wrote:Shade, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you one of these players who comes from the IN side of the merge and hasn't really PvPed a lot here yet? So please, go PvP a bit, see what this PvP is like, and after you've done that feel free to come back here and tell me if you still think that spam is like your broccoli, but either way it's not going to change in major ways, the only thing we'll do to change it is balance it by setting delays etc, but the rest is up to you and everyone else to get used to.

I am pretty sure I said I would hit someone with a plate if they told me to try something I didn't like... Do not assume I didn't try it, assume I hated it. I do not enjoy limited tactics.

Didn't one of the XUO side staff members say it was added because duels would take hours? I don't feel like searching for that comment but I am sure I read something along those lines.

Anyway, I will agree that the scrolls are a great feature and its nice to list all the things that are unique about xuo pvp but what about all the things taken away... You have narrowed down variation so much that spam is needed I suppose but maybe if you made more then two attack spells worthwhile it would be nice (regarding armored players). What about stat potions, curses and blesses? All I see is hallys or bards... I wonder why.

This pvp is limited and I still stick to my statement. I mean unless you want to say every pvper here doesn't know what they are doing, because I see the same thing day in and out with little to no variation. This style may have been effective when it was created but patterns are formed and people tend to repeat what works for them.

I have pvp'd on somewhere around 50 shards and 1 out of 3 of those had unique or tweaked pvp. Some I have been in the top 5 and some I have been horrible at. Those ones I was horrible at I still played for the fun of it. I keep getting the impression that some people don't understand that this isn't fun... so that is why I am bringing this up. This has nothing to do with how good or bad I am, how used to the pvp I am or not. I am not that player who needs to be the best, I could care less. What bothers me is the fact that nobody who is accustom to this pvp will admit that it could be better.

I see potential here, great potential and yet no desire to make it better.

Sorry for the rant I am just tired of hearing that I should try it more and I will like it. I will not. It isn't for me, it isn't for a lot of players.

P.S. Seeing only:
Kal Vas Flam
In Vas Mani
Port Ort Grav

is much more deceiving then:

Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam

Fs PVP - imported_Ryuuku - 08-30-2008

Shade Wrote:Sorry for the rant I am just tired of hearing that I should try it more and I will like it. I will not. It isn't for me, it isn't for a lot of players.

P.S. Seeing only:
Kal Vas Flam
In Vas Mani
Port Ort Grav

is much more deceiving then:

Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam

THATS the point i'm trying to reach, thanks Shade for it.

Fs PVP - imported_Kilala - 08-30-2008

Shade Wrote:P.S. Seeing only:
Kal Vas Flam
In Vas Mani
Port Ort Grav

is much more deceiving then:

Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam Kal Vas Flam

I am an old IN1 player, and recently just joined back in IN:X.
I do RP, but that is not all I play INX for, I also PVP .. or atleast I used to.

Watching event's go on, I must say it's just completely ridiculous how it works.
I'm not saying I think IN1s pvp used to be so much better than this, but atleast it had some tactic in it
Theres a HUGE difference between confusing your enemy and just spamming their screen, apparently someone confused that along the line.

Fs PVP - imported_Ryuuku - 08-30-2008

Kilala Wrote:I am an old IN1 player, and recently just joined back in IN:X.
I do RP, but that is not all I play INX for, I also PVP .. or atleast I used to.

Watching event's go on, I must say it's just completely ridiculous how it works.
I'm not saying I think IN1s pvp used to be so much better than this, but atleast it had some tactic in it
Theres a HUGE difference between confusing your enemy and just spamming their screen, apparently someone confused that along the line.

Finally someone from IN here to help in that conversation....I think the thread finally reached what I wanted.

Theres a HUGE difference between confusing your enemy and just spamming their screen, apparently someone confused that along the line. (2)