Injection needs to go. It's not pvp, it's who can make the better script. - Printable Version
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Injection needs to go. It's not pvp, it's who can make the better script. - Anhelios - 05-14-2012
Ok guys. Keep it as a debate, not a name calling match. The focus is on Injection as a whole. I myself have been gone from the game a long time and the only macros I know to use are the in game ones. They will only be the ones I use since I'm in the medical field and not in the scripting field. Nor do I have the time to learn the little bit of scripting apparently needed to be learned to run injection.
The statement still stands that anything that does something for you is considered a bot. You press a button and it casts a string of spells for you? Sure. In game macros can do that. Looting a body after you've killed the person to loot their stuff ASAP is not fine. Turning the game into a giant automation due to a third party program is not fine, and will not be the UO I play. If injection stays I do not. Never had I willingly condoned the use of botting, of any kind, nor will I ever.
One has to ask themselves, if the huge advantage that a player has over another due to injection and other botting programs, is not the reason so many players left in the first place. I've had a lot of help from nice players that have went out of their way to help me and answer my questions due to me relearning everything again. Most of the shards I've seen don't allow any 3rd party programs.
Please don't take this as an insult anyone, but I wonder, how many of you would still be the top of the food chain without injection? Have you played the game purely as the game was intended? No third party mumbo jumbo? Do you still truly enjoy the game with everything done for you with a press of a button?
Injection needs to go. It's not pvp, it's who can make the better script. - sm0ke - 05-14-2012
Mister Pickles Wrote:You sure did write a long response for someone who doesn't care.
a few sentences is a lot for you lol? Have you ever written a paper before?
Injection needs to go. It's not pvp, it's who can make the better script. - Gang - 05-14-2012
But you don't need learning to script to use injection , the PvP scripts are available... I might upload the autoload prepared with the scroll casting scripts, with shield equipping on bandage use and so on, but that all is available already, only that right now you'd have to gather it.
I did play game without any third party programm, everyone did. The thing is it didn't make game more challanging, I'm saying all it adds up is annoyance of having to click scroll before using it and so on. If for example UO options had .useitem or .bandageself or .recallrune commands and option to save objects you add, I wouldn't ever go learning assist, then razor, then injection in first place, because it would be obsolete. For anything other than AFK macroing I mean... You can stop playing if you want, or you could actually try injection at first. It is not evil machine that allows you to do everything, like I said , it only helps me to skip the proccess of clicking skill or object in my backpack, thats it.
Any PC games is either aim or buttons, or both. The thing is how much buttons you have to press and how much actions they actually do. My scripts do not make more than 1 action...
Injection needs to go. It's not pvp, it's who can make the better script. - Anhelios - 05-14-2012
Gang Wrote:But you don't need learning to script to use injection , the PvP scripts are available... I might upload the autoload prepared with the scroll casting scripts, with shield equipping on bandage use and so on, but that all is available already, only that right now you'd have to gather it.
I did play game without any third party programm, everyone did. The thing is it didn't make game more challanging, I'm saying all it adds up is annoyance of having to click scroll before using it and so on. If for example UO options had .useitem or .bandageself or .recallrune commands and option to save objects you add, I wouldn't ever go learning assist, then razor, then injection in first place, because it would be obsolete. For anything other than AFK macroing I mean... You can stop playing if you want, or you could actually try injection at first. It is not evil machine that allows you to do everything, like I said , it only helps me to skip the proccess of clicking skill or object in my backpack, thats it.
Any PC games is either aim or buttons, or both. The thing is how much buttons you have to press and how much actions they actually do. My scripts do not make more than 1 action...
I have played other games that had preloaded scripts for such things and they were never any fun. It was basically all measured by luck and who could click the buttons the fastest. The REAL game of UO is based than just luck. It involved skill too. What skill is there to push a button and everything from your target is in your bag? The fun came from killing the person then hoping to loot his body fast enough before he came back, or cutting it up so he had to rez with a healer instead of at his body. Thats the thrill, the drive using injection is missing.
The game was built to have you play the game, not allow pushing one button and doing x amount of actions for you. Let me ask you this, how many actions can you script in one button?
Injection needs to go. It's not pvp, it's who can make the better script. - Nasir - 05-14-2012
sm0ke Wrote:You are actually 100% completely wrong. You think people would play on injection if it wasn't less laggy or more smooth than razor? Razor is a baby tool that anyone can use and make any type of macro with it. Maka him self has stated in the past that injection runs smoother and it's also 1.5 seconds faster response time than razor. UOassist is just as fast as injection but takes less scripting. Ask anyone whose made the switch from razor to injection they'll completely agree that it's faster and smoother than razor. Don't know where you pulled those facts from but it sounds like your speaking from your ass when really you don't know what your talking about.
He didn't mention anywhere or anything about connection he said injection gives certain advantages over others with scripts which he is completely correct about 100% and gang that isn't your most complex script you use for PvP but nice try lol.. That poison one alone took way more scripting and effort alone and I'm sure there's others your refusing to share with others but anyways I don't care diablo comes out tomorrow at midnight.
I could have sworn I specifically said that razor runs slower than injection. Razor is hooked to all the things so it lags your client more.
Nobody in the server runs faster than intended. Period. There's no getting around that fact because the server has code specifically for preventing people from moving more than x tiles per second.
My point was that injection is closer to a naked client. No 3rd party utilities. So no I'm not wrong and yes injection players do have an advantage simply by using a less bloated tool.
Injection needs to go. It's not pvp, it's who can make the better script. - Gang - 05-14-2012
I now realize that you haven't really played the game, nor have any idea of how injection works, at least here. I said it in many posts already, but you clearly didn't read the thread. I have only one-two actions on one button. Two actions means it will double click scrolls-cast it on last target, or use spell target it myself or last target and so on. I have over 100keys binded. (124 in hotkeys, but 20 aren't from this server, these are from INX, to equip my r/r clothes and stuff. Even there I had one cloth per key, btw.)
Most complicated script I have is poisoning , what it does is checks for objects in my hands and if right hand or left are layered it will apply poison on it. It is all is possible in razor also, maybe people there would have annoyance of adding weapons serial to the macro everytime they get new weapon, but I don't consider it an unfair advantage. It's just less annoyance, and thats what most of my macro do. How do I cut bodies? I have macro key that simply double clicks dagger by type, I target the body and cut it manually though. I don't have any of targetting script either, not because I'm a good guy as well, but because I will aim faster than macro would go through ~5 people that you got on the screen. I understand myself much better than macro would understand me.
Injection needs to go. It's not pvp, it's who can make the better script. - Anhelios - 05-14-2012
Gang Wrote:I now realize that you haven't really played the game, nor have any idea of how injection works, at least here. I said it in many posts already, but you clearly didn't read the thread. I have only one-two actions on one button. Two actions means it will double click scrolls-cast it on last target, or use spell target it myself or last target and so on. I have over 100keys binded. (124 in hotkeys, but 20 aren't from this server, these are from INX, to equip my r/r clothes and stuff. Even there I had one cloth per key, btw.)
Most complicated script I have is poisoning , what it does is checks for objects in my hands and if right hand or left are layered it will apply poison on it. It is all is possible in razor also, maybe people there would have annoyance of adding weapons serial to the macro everytime they get new weapon, but I don't consider it an unfair advantage. It's just less annoyance, and thats what most of my macro do. How do I cut bodies? I have macro key that simply double clicks dagger by type, I target the body and cut it manually though. I don't have any of targetting script either, not because I'm a good guy as well, but because I will aim faster than macro would go through ~5 people that you got on the screen. I understand myself much better than macro would understand me.
Ok. So apparently you don't read it either. Just because you have macros that do one or two things doesn't mean someone else doesn't have one that does 10. And no, as I said in an earlier post, I've NOT used Injection. I played BEFORE they had the botting programs. When everything was raw and you did everything yourself. Shortcuts on anything is an unfair advantage is it not? In a race, someone takes a shortcut, they win cause of that shortcut. Same as injection. You're shortcutting it with a tool that wasn't meant to be in the game to begin with. If you did that with the in game macros, then cool, you're awesome with the macros and can take the shortcuts they provided like everyone else. Injection is a 3rd party program. Simple as that. Should not be used.
Injection needs to go. It's not pvp, it's who can make the better script. - Galehaut - 05-14-2012
There's a good reason why injection always been banned from all the previous professional private servers i played in the last 10 years ; it's game breaking.
it totally kills the whole purpose of the game, because in ultima online , actions are supose to take time , you arent supose to do everything instantly , and thats how you would differentiate the best pvpers from the worsts.
Currently in IN , you are obligated to use injection or else you are behind in therm of time response simply. Also , you guys should make it clear from the begining whne you install the server that you also need to install injection , and you should provides full guides for it if you plan on anyone to catch up.
But to be honest , most old school players thinks that this kind of pvp using injection is just bad and we dont want to learn to play with such a game-breaking tool. That must be why almost nobody pvp on IN too and that the server is slowly dying ( AFK gatherers that kills the economy are also responsible ).
Injection needs to go. It's not pvp, it's who can make the better script. - Raziel_ - 05-14-2012
Galehaut Wrote:There's a good reason why injection always been banned from all the previous professional private servers i played in the last 10 years ; it's game breaking.
it totally kills the whole purpose of the game, because in ultima online , actions are supose to take time , you arent supose to do everything instantly , and thats how you would differentiate the best pvpers from the worsts.
Currently in INX , you are obligated to use injection or else you are behind in therm of time response simply. Also , you guys should make it clear from the begining whne you install the server that you also need to install injection , and you should provides full guides for it if you plan on anyone to catch up.
But to be honest , most old school players thinks that this kind of pvp using injection is just bad and we dont want to learn to play with such a game-breaking tool. That must be why almost nobody pvp on IN too and that the server is slowly dying ( AFK gatherers that kills the economy are also responsible ).
INX isnt even online anymore...
And you're not obligated to use injection here! i used to hunt and pvp on INX(which doesnt exist anymore) using razor all time! The only reason i switched to injection is that it runs smoother than razor! not because you can automate with a script, since you can create most macros on injection with razor! have you guys tried to call one macro from another macro with razor?! its possible and it does almost everything injection does, the "unfair" advantage injection gives is the smoother gameplay, thats it!
And injection is banned from many servers because it was possible to run faster than the server, which means you could cheat to get a faster gameplay like if you were using a speed hack... this doesnt happen here!
Anhelios Wrote:Ok. So apparently you don't read it either. Just because you have macros that do one or two things doesn't mean someone else doesn't have one that does 10. And no, as I said in an earlier post, I've NOT used Injection. I played BEFORE they had the botting programs. When everything was raw and you did everything yourself. Shortcuts on anything is an unfair advantage is it not? In a race, someone takes a shortcut, they win cause of that shortcut. Same as injection. You're shortcutting it with a tool that wasn't meant to be in the game to begin with. If you did that with the in game macros, then cool, you're awesome with the macros and can take the shortcuts they provided like everyone else. Injection is a 3rd party program. Simple as that. Should not be used.
Dont compare uo to a racing game or a race! And in my opnion if that shortcut from the race is there for all the others and is not illegal like its on need for speed its pretty much valid!
Injection needs to go. It's not pvp, it's who can make the better script. - Anhelios - 05-14-2012
Dont compare uo to a racing game or a race! And in my opnion if that shortcut from the race is there for all the others and is not illegal like its on need for speed its pretty much valid!
Thats the thing. Its illegal everywhere else. For us old time "Racers" not knowing this shortcut, to us its illegal. And why I will probably not PvP if somethings not done about the shortcut. As it was said, UO was suppose to take time to do things, to enjoy the game as it was intended. Also I read on the site and they are trying to make the shard as close to normal UO as possible? How is Injection anything like normal UO was?
Injection needs to go. It's not pvp, it's who can make the better script. - sm0ke - 05-14-2012
Anhelios Wrote:Dont compare uo to a racing game or a race! And in my opnion if that shortcut from the race is there for all the others and is not illegal like its on need for speed its pretty much valid!
Thats the thing. Its illegal everywhere else. For us old time "Racers" not knowing this shortcut, to us its illegal. And why I will probably not PvP if somethings not done about the shortcut. As it was said, UO was suppose to take time to do things, to enjoy the game as it was intended. Also I read on the site and they are trying to make the shard as close to normal UO as possible? How is Injection anything like normal UO was?
I agreed with you that injection gives advantages over other 3rd party programs if you're able to script but what you're against in general is macros where pretty much every single shard has evolved and now uses. You will never find a shard that doesn't use any type of program and just uses the client to play from.
Injection needs to go. It's not pvp, it's who can make the better script. - Anhelios - 05-15-2012
sm0ke Wrote:I agreed with you that injection gives advantages over other 3rd party programs if you're able to script but what you're against in general is macros where pretty much every single shard has evolved and now uses. You will never find a shard that doesn't use any type of program and just uses the client to play from.
http://www.gamesites200.com/ultimaonline/ Looking here I found quite a few who don't use anything like it. One out of 7 I looked at used UOassist, which I heard mentioned on here. Went looking a bit on forums for the ones I didn't immediately find and found a total of 3 of those 7 that used something in that fashion. (Had to google some since I wasn't familiar with the names of the programs.)
So its not never, nor is it rare. Some shards stick to what the game really is and are active. So with this post, I think I'll leave you all to do as you'd like and wish you all the best of luck.