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Welcome to my theory-crafted guide to the new PvP system. In terms of structure the guide will be written as a list of changes or features, followed by any mechanical details pertaining to the feature and then a short comment on the proper use intended. All new features have specific roles intended for them and it is hoped that the players who are best at identifying and utilising these features will have an edge in combat.

Comments are welcome as is tactical discussion but whining about the numbers without first taking time to practice, learn and test the changes in-game will only undermine the value of your opinion. I respect evidence-based objectivity and will listen to criticism, but not if it is prejudged whining based on perceived and untested problems. Sorry if this sounds aggressive, it isn't my intention, I just want people to know if you want your opinion to be respected make sure you've given it some serious impartial thought and a bit of experiment to go with it.

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Greater Heal (Spell book)

Restores 38 hits on an unpoisoned target, or 30 hits on a poisoned target. This means a loss of 21% effectiveness when the target is poisoned.

Mana: 11

Time: 2.1s

Comments:

This is the most mana efficient healing spell by a notable margin. Furthermore, this spell also loses the least effectiveness in terms of % heal when the target is poisoned. Tactically it makes sense for this spell to be the primary healing spell in order to maximise health coverage and minimise mana use. However, it is also easier for an opponent to cast poison before the end of a Greater Heal cast or to get in a hit with a poisoned weapon. Also note that the long cast time may result in death from incoming damage before the cast is finished. Therefore, in certain situations (or against opponents taking a poison-heavy approach) it may be better to rely on other healing methods.

Greater Heal (Scroll)

Restores 35 hits on an unpoisoned target, or 27 hits on a poisoned target. This means a loss of 23% effectiveness when the target is poisoned.

Mana: 23

Time: 1.0s

Comments:

This is by far the most time efficient healing spell with a HPS of 35 when the target is not poisoned. This is extremely fast. However, the high mana cost prohibits extensive use and the healing mitigation is greater when the target is poisoned. In general a single cast when being dumped on should be viable. If the dump is early in the fight a double cast is also viable but results in a significant loss of mana. Careless use will eventually lead to going out of mana if your opponent chooses to punish you in this way. Note that in order to cover a cast of Greater Heal from a scroll one would need to drink a total mana potion resulting in a potion delay of 27s. However, using a Greater Heal potion and casting Heal will cover 38hp in exactly the same amount of time and only trigger your potion delay for 10s.

Heal (Spell book and scroll are the same)

Restores 13 hits on an unpoisoned target, or 10 hits on a poisoned target. This means a loss of 30% effectiveness when the target is poisoned.

Mana: 4

Time: 0.8s

Comments:

This spell has a lower HPM and HPS than Greater Heal. Additionally it also loses more coverage than any other healing method when poisoned. However, this does not mean it is useless, a good example of one use is given in the comments for Greater Heal scrolls. Whenever a small amount of health is required quickly, either to minimise the time spent healing, or to survive an incoming attack, but the user does not wish to blow 23 mana for a Greater Heal scroll then Heal is the way to go. The high mitigation on poisoned targets may seem prohibitive but the short cast time means that interrupting a Heal with a poison is extremely unlikely and only truly careless players who do not cure or pay attention are likely to get penalised heavily. Heal is also the best way to deal with enemies who use harassment spells a lot since it is fast and cheap and does not take you off the offense for a full 2.1s like Greater Heal does.

Greater Heal Potion

Restores 25 hits. Ignores poison condition.

Delay: 10s

Comments:

In general these potions were very underused before the changes. This doesn't mean nobody used them, but a lot of people used automated mana chugging loops and so on. I believe with a shorter delay and the reduced reliance on mana potions the decision to drink either mana or health is more down to good judgement and less of an obvious choice. For aggressive play mana potion will always be the way. But when healing a greater heal potion can give you 25hp/10s. A total mana potion can give you 27mana/27s. This can then be used to cast spells, in the case of Greater Heal you will be able to convert 27 mana into two casts giving 76 hits and an additional Heal spell to give a total of 89 hits best case scenario where you are not poisoned and do not die due to the low HPS on these two spells. In this same time frame you can chug 2.7x Greater Heal potions giving a total of 67.5 hits. This leads to the conclusion that unless you are under pressure it is not wise to waste your delay on drinking Greater Heal potions. However, if you are under pressure and forced to cast Greater Heal scroll then the mana potion leads to only 35 hits plus one Heal giving a total of 48 hits in 27s, in this case you would have been far better off chugging the Greater Heal potions, even more so if poison mitigates any of the casts. Also note that Heal potions now do an animation which will help allies and opponents tell what type of potion you are drinking.

Bandages

Restore a random amount of health between 1 and approximately 50 with a base fail chance (giving no health) of 9%. The random limits are not weighed so the chance of a heal of any specific value between min and max is equal. These values are based on GM Anatomy and GM Healing. If either of these is lower then fail chance increases and the maximum heal is reduced. Bandages take approximately 2s to apply.

After the changes DEX now influences healing in the following ways:

Fail chance increases by 1%, min heal decreases by 1 and max heal decreases by 0.5 for every 10 DEX below 80 or reduces by 1%, increases by 1 and increases by 0.5 respectively for every 10 DEX above 80.

The changes are linear formulas so at 75 DEX you still have penalties, it is not a discrete system that only applies every 10. Min heal cannot go below 0.

Comments:

At 80 DEX bandages will function identically to how they used to pre-changes. Below 80 DEX the reliability of bandages drops quite significantly as the chance to get fails or 0hp heals goes up quite a bit. I would go as far as to say that below 80 DEX bandages are not useful in PvP. At 120 DEX the fail chance is relatively low and minimum heals are increased to 5 hits. This may seem a minor increase but the extra reliability means that a player with a low mana pool can use bandages to help manage their health and conserve mana. In a dueling situation the long apply time means that poison pressure will be a problem as poison 100% blocks the first bandage and even the book Poison now casts in 1s. However, I hope the increased effectiveness of bandages will allow people who wish to lean towards a warrior style of PvP to stand a better chance than before. For other players the primary purpose will be to conserve mana when there is not too much pressure. However, the inherent unreliability and vulnerability to poison are serious limitations.

Greater Cure Potions

Instantly cures poisons up to normal level. 90% chance for an instant cure of a Greater Poison and 75% chance for an instant cure of a Deadly Poison.

Delay: 5s

Comments:

In the old system these served nearly no purpose. In the new system the extremely low delay means that the occasional use of a Cure potion will not be a major penalty to your mana levels, nor lock out the use of a Greater Heal potion for very long if you are under pressure. In order to determine if a Cure is worth using I believe one needs to consider the situation. If you are casting a Greater Heal and see an incoming Poison then you stand to lose 8 hits from your heal, the chances are this is not worth drinking a Cure for since 8 hits/5s is a very poor ratio. However, if you are casting a lot of heal spells (e.g. in a gank situation) and stopping the heal casting to do a Cure spell would result in death then drinking a Cure may be a good idea since if the Poison is left unchecked on multiple casts the Cure potion may in fact have a value of more than only 8 hits, even more so if the poison is likely to start ticking and causing its own damage as well. Another situation where I believe Cure potions are useful is when healing with bandages (e.g. for Warrior-style players) if a bandage is 1.5s into its duration and you get poisoned a quick Cure potion will ensure the bandage is successful. This may seem minor but since bandages can heal over 50hp at high DEX it is a gamble which may pay off and only locks out your potion delay for 5s. Also since a warrior build may have low INT this may also be another way of conserving mana by relying on bandies and potions to cover curing and health management.

Cure (Spell book and scroll are the same)

Cures poison from the target with 100% effectiveness.

Mana: 6

Time: 0.9s

Comments:

This is of course the primary way of removing poison for most players. If an opponent Poisons a lot then every careless Poison which you can easily Cure gains you 3 mana and 0.1s advantage. This means that in a battle of Cure against Poison the pressure is on the Poison casting player to make sure he gets a benefit with clever poisoning, otherwise the Cure casting player will get the advantage. The short cast time also means that even in a dump it is worth timing a Cure between heal spells to remove Poison before it ticks and/or the total health mitigated from your casts builds up significantly. This may seem like you are "stopping your healing" but in fact you are saving yourself a lot of lost health and if a Poison is cured before mitigating or ticking damage then your opponent will have also lost casting time and mana as well which loses you little. Poor curing can be a problem though as even two mitigated Greater Heal casts would result in a loss of 16 hits which is a significant amount to lose to a 1s cast 3rd circle spell. If the Poison also ticks and is Greater or Deadly then the loss will be even greater, so managing Poison is very important but also careless poisoning loses advantage to even basic curing.

Magic Reflect (Scroll)

Reflects the next harmful spell to hit the target.

Time: 1.75s

Mana: 19

Comments:

Only the mana cost has changed in the latest patch. This is to reflect the increase in damage and mana cost for many of the primary attack spells. I believe the utilisation of this spell is largely unchanged, it is only worth its mana cost if you are able to reflect spells like Flame Strike, Energy Bolt or Mind Blast in which case you have cost your opponent a comparable or greater amount of mana, effectively healed yourself by a respectable amount of health and inflicted a good amount of damage on your opponent. The short cast time means it is possible to cast and reflect a Flame Strike scroll if you are extremely fast but it is most likely this spell will only serve its purpose when employed preemptively at the correct moment or used to kill the momentum of an opponent's attack. The book spell is unchanged and serves similar purpose but is much slower, since it hasn't changed and the use is the same as before I won't be adding a separate comment or description for it.

Here I will summarise the changes and uses for offensive and harmful spells.

Flame Strike (Spell book)

The spell inflicts a minimum of 47 damage to the target. This damage increases on low AR to a maximum of 51 damage at 0 AR. This AR dependence is small but designed to give a slight reward to people using the very best AR but without breaking the system such that rich players benefit too much.

Mana: 40

Delay: 3.5s

Comments:

With the increased damage some players may wish to use this spell for ganking against opponents in mid to high AR or for starting a dump, particularly against an opponent who is paralyzed or such-like. Otherwise the high mana cost and cast time prohibit use in general PvP.

Flame Strike (Scroll)

The spell inflicts 42 damage on the target. This damage is increased with decreasing AR with a maximum damage of 46 at 0 AR.

Mana: 27

Delay: 2.1s

Comments:

This is still the primary nuking spell with the highest DPS of any offensive spell in the game. The DPM is now slightly worse to offset the increased total damage. However, the spell is still relatively efficient and I expect it to be used in most situations for nuking against opponents who are in respectable levels of AR. Situationally other nuking spells may be better and those situations will be discussed in the comments for those spells.

Harm (Spell book and scroll are the same)

This spell inflicts 21 damage on the target, ignores AR.

Mana: 11

Delay: 2.1s

Comments:

This spell has the poorest DPS of any offensive spell. However, it is also the most mana efficient damage spell available on high AR opponents. There are many situations where this is useful, particularly for harassment during duels. If one wishes to open with a moderate amount of guaranteed damage without losing too much mana, or if one is being chased and wishes to knock the opponent's health down to force a heal then Harm is a highly effective way of doing it without sacrificing too much of your own mana. However, the poor DPS means it is a bad choice for nuking. Observant players will notice that the stats very closely match the old version of Lightning as cast from the spell book. So if Lightning (spell book) used to play a part in your old strategies then Harm should also suffice for that purpose.

Lightning (Spell book and scroll are the same)

The spell inflicts 16 damage on the target, ignores AR.

Mana: 10

Delay: 1.0s

Comments:

This spell has good DPS, but inferior to Flame Strike scrolls. It also has decent DPM but inferior to a number of other spells. However, its strength lies in the fact that it can deliver the hardest guaranteed AR-ignoring punch in 1s making it an ideal finishing move. Again observant players will note that the stats match the Lightning scroll from before the changes and as such the use for this spell is much the same. One should note that depending on AR or stats other spells may serve the purpose of finishing move better, but Lightning is the bread and butter spell for this purpose.

Fireball (Spell book and scroll are the same)

This spell inflicts a base damage of 14 on the target. At low AR (below 45) damage is increased with more the damage the lower the AR maxing out at 22 damage for 0 AR.

Mana: 9

Time: 1.25s

Comments:

In general this spell is inferior as a finisher to Lightning and inferior in harassment to Harm when AR is ~40 or above. However, at low AR, particularly near to 0, the spell outstrips Lightning in terms of damage and Harm in terms of mana efficiency. This means that it is the perfect spell for either finishing or simply bullying a low AR opponent paving the way for either a strong nuke or finishing an opponent off quickly if they heal too fast for a finish using Explosion or Energy Bolt. The low mana cost also means that in a duel against someone in low AR it can be used for cheap hits and forcing your opponent to heal without costing you too much time or mana.

Mana Drain (Spell book and scroll are the same)

The spell removes 18 mana from the target. Once removed an internal timer starts, after 12s the mana is returned to the opponent. If you repeat a cast inside this 12s your cast will do nothing and waste your mana. An animation is played when the duration is over and mana is returned.

Mana: 9

Delay: 1.0s

Comments:

This is one of the least tested features but I will talk about the intended purpose. If an opponent was to nuke poorly or over use GH scrolls then in the old system they would go out of mana and die. This is right. But in the new system with regeneration sometimes an opponent has a greater margin for error for such things. Mana Drain is one of the tools used to destroy this margin for error, if an opponent nukes poorly and wastes their mana then you can drain 18 of whatever remains, if done right the opponent may bottom out and be vulnerable to being finished off without being able to cast Greater Heals or such. The animation that plays when the 12s duration ends will help with reapplying if necessary. Note that if you drain too early and your opponent maxes their mana then when mana is restored they may even go above maximum mana (same formula as mana pots) so you could be doing them a favour, use the spell wisely. Also see Mind Blast for more on this strategy.

Mind Blast (Spell book and scrolls are the same)

This spell is one of the most complex. Its basic function is to do 30 damage, ignoring AR, and also drain 3 mana from the target. The drained mana is not added to the caster's mana pool but is simply destroyed. It is also not returned (i.e. not like Mana Drain).

When the target has imbalanced stats then Mind Blast gains some advantages. For a maximum imbalance of 60 difference between INT and DEX then Mindblast gains 7 damage and drains 1 additional mana. This bonus is smaller for smaller differences in INT and DEX and the formula is linear.

Mana: 17

Time: 1.75s

Comments:

There are two angles to Mind Blast. I will address each separately. First is its use as a nuking spell and in punishing people with imbalanced stats. Some people planning to go Warrior build may be alarmed by this, as are perhaps some people with ganking stats, but everything has a disadvantage and the extremes of stats get the biggest bonuses so there is always a drawback somewhere else. At 37 damage then the mana efficiency of Mind Blast is comparable to the best of any other spell, and the DPS is very respectable second only to Flame Strike scrolls and AR-dependent spells on naked people. This means it is entirely reasonable to use Mind Blast as a primary nuking spell if your opponent has a big stat imbalance. However, it will not significantly out perform Flame Strike scrolls as this would be too good, but the performance may be very close and this is useful if you run out of scrolls or simply cannot afford them. Even at 30 damage on high AR opponents if Flame Strike scrolls are not available then Mind Blast may be your best option having a very similar DPS to Lightning but with additional mana drain.

The second angle to Mind Blast is its use in bottoming out your opponent's mana. From high mana the amount drained (3-4/cast) is not significant and will not cause your opponent to go out of mana before you do yourself. However, if your opponent already wasted a lot of mana scrolling or nuking badly then a well-timed Mana Drain followed by Mind Blast nuking (even at base 30 damage) could be extremely effective. Draining 3 mana per 1.75s exceeds the maximum mana regeneration rate, effectively killing your opponent's mana regeneration. This means if their mana is already low enough and a Mana Drain has been applied your opponent will have extreme difficulty in being able to cast unless he can manage a total mana potion or some very effective LoS breaking.

However, it should be noted like most of the new features that poor use will be penalised. If you nuke using Mind Blast instead of Flame Strike and your opponent is high on mana and/or has balanced stats then you will be sacrificing both DPS and DPM and significantly undermining your own mana management and chance to kill your opponent.

Explosion (Spell book and scroll are not the same but both entered here)

Does a base of 60 damage on 0 AR. However, damage decays with a polynomial order 2 expression with increasing AR such that even by AR 30 you would probably be better off casting something else.

The decay, for those who like the maths, is damage reduced by ((AR/8) + 1) * AR/8.

Mana: 20 (15 on scroll)

Time: 3.25s (1.75s on scroll) (I think, I will check this and adjust later)

Comments:

This new damage formula helps to separate Explosion from Energy Bolt. Now Explosion is clearly superior on vendor-level or below AR whereas on low/mid AR Energy Bolt will perform better (up to about 40-45 AR EB will outperform any of the other primary nukes, but since it is unchanged it isn't going to have its own entry here). In general Explosion does not have a purpose beyond punishing people in low AR with massive damage. The long cast time (even on scroll) means that you may wish to use Fireball in addition to Explosion to finish people off before they can use a Greater Heal scrolls or potion.

Magic Arrow (Scroll)

Inflicts 8 damage on the target, ignores AR.

Mana: 4

Time: 0.8s

Comments:

This has one highly situation purpose, if an opponent is red-lined at 8hp or less then this is the single fastest way to inflict 8 damage and finish your opponent. Since the cast time is matched to Heal it means that in the event of such a scenario if the attacker has a faster trigger finger than the defender then it means either death or at the very least forces the use of a Heal potion if the delay is up. However, in all other purposes the spell is not particularly effective having by far the worst DPS of any spell. The DPM is respectable at 2 damage per mana but the total damage is so low I would not expect to see the spell used for other purposes.

Please note that the book version of Magic Arrow is unchanged and still only does 1 damage meaning that it is still the primary method of removing Paralyze and Magic Reflect.

Poison (Spell book and scroll are the same)

Applies poison to the target. The level is determined by your Magery and Poisoning skills. At 200 total you will mostly apply Deadly level poison.

Mana: 9

Time: 1s

Comments:

The poison damage mechanic is unchanged. However, the new mitigation on heals (see healing spells) means that Poison has an additional dimension. See cure spell for discussion of why careless Poisoning is a liability. As a Poison user it is important to apply a poison in such a way that it will either mitigate a number of heals or will have time to start ticking and actually do damage. To this end applying a poison mid dump makes curing more difficult for an opponent, particularly if the opponent does not have good situational awareness or if the opponent is under a lot of pressure (perhaps being ganked) and cannot afford the 0.9s + lag + reaction time required to cure. Additionally, whilst other harassment spells can do straight up damage some people consider the net loss of only 3 mana to distract an opponent who is trying to run you down with a weapon to be worth it. Just bear in mind that 9 mana and 1s can be used to do something else, and sometimes there are better options, I see a lot of poor use of Poison at the moment in situations where either Harm, Fireball or Lightning would serve a better purpose.

Changes to weapon swinging

For every DEX above 100 you now increase swing rate by 0.4%. This applies to all weapon types. Note also that before the changes every DEX below 100 meant the loss of 0.8% weapon swing rate, this still appies.

The main aim of this change is that, in conjunction with the changes to bandages, it should be more viable to concentrate on a high DEX approach to combat, but without resulting in auto-attack only victories, magic (input) should always be necessary in a system with no weapon moves and no skill cap.

In particular I think high DEX may work well in confined spaces like duels, but this is largely untested because people didn't want to shift stats just for the testing area, I hope warrior-inclined players can give me some feedback on this soon.

Changes to mana management

Passive mana regeneration now works. To balance this mana potions give 75% as much mana as before. Mana regeneration is dependent on INT and Meditation. When the combination of these two is 200+ then you get maximum regeneration which is ~ 1 mana/s.

In the old system a constantly-chugging player could get 36mana/27s. In the new system the same approach will give 27mana/27s plus a regen of 1mana/s which is 54mana in the same time frame. This is significantly more and regeneration rate is certainly something I'll be keeping an eye on. However, increased mana intakes for a number of spells and greater incentives for use of other potion types means that overall mana regeneration for most people will remain significantly below this cap. But, a judgement call is there for whether you wish to go that mana intensive at the cost of not being able to use Heals and so on (the advantages of which I have discussed above).

Additionally there are a number of ways to negatively impact your opponent's mana pool (see Mana Drain and Mind Blast).

Changes to weapons

Only 1H bladed weapons can now be poisoned. This is to enhance their usefulness whilst recognising with the new poison mechanics that the hardest hitting weapons should not be able to apply poison as well. To balance this further changes were also made: Now poison pots give a greater number of charges to help with keeping poisonable weapons useful (since in general they do poorer damage) and also previously-poisonable weapons (all 2H Axes and Spears) which can no longer be poisoned have had their damage levels increased (mostly in the form of minimum damage increases with only slight increases in max damage to give a more reliable and less luck-based damage output).

Changes to stamina management

This has never been a big part of the game but a quick note to say that Refresh potions have their delay reduced to 8s.

Further to this Stam drain on macing weapons is now fixed. It was in fact bugged before and was draining way more than intended so this is less of a change and more of a fix but I figured it should be mentioned. Before maces could drain up to 10 stam per hit, now the cap is 4.

Changes to scrolls

These changes have been covered in the spell details above. But to reiterate one of the most important points, the following list of scrolls cast the same as the spell book and as such serve no purpose beyond increasing your casting success chance: Harm, Fireball, Mind Blast, Cure, Heal, Poison, Mana Drain, Lightning.

This still leaves a large number of scrolls which are vital to PvP: Flame Strike, Greater Heal, Magic Reflect, Paralyze, Magic Arrow, Energy Bolt, Explosion.

And also many that are at least useful: Bless, Curse, Teleport, Wall of Stone, Dispel Field.

Related fixes which happened recently

These changes weren't part of the PvP overhaul but since they happened recently they are worth a mention:

1) Wall of stone no longer stacks. Instead a renewed casting renews the timer on wall sections which overlap.

2) Wall of stone used to have a bugged duration, that has now been fixed to ~1 minute.

3) Paralyze also used to have a bugged and excesssive duration, it has been reduced to ~ 45s.

4) Aforementioned fix to stam drain on macing weapons now capped at 4 drain per hit.

Miscellaneous/Other:

1) Paralyze scrolls now cost only 10 mana. Otherwise they function in exactly the same way. This means they can be useful for deterring an opponent who is chasing you with a weapon up, or for grappling an opponent in order for you to try and hit them with your weapon.

2) I realise most the numbers I've written for the spells rely on GM magery, GM eval and GM resist. If in doubt assume lower Eval = less damage, lower Magery = less healing and less duration on buffs, and lower Resist = more damage and longer durations on curses.

3) Recall scrolls take 1.85s to cast (was 1.7s). This is a small difference but slightly increases the length of time for an attacker to get off a Lightning, Magic Arrow or Fireball to interrupt the spell.

4) Swing rate formulas work on regular stats so Curse/Bless spells do affect this. However, bandage formula and mana regeneration work on RAW stats so they are not buffed by Bless or reduced by Curse. Mind Blast also works on RAW stats.

5) This is not new but something many are not aware of: Shield and Protection AR does not apply to spell damage. Only AR from the 6 body locations matter for calculating damage from Explosion, Energy Bolt, Flame Strike, Fireball, Explosion potions and Meteor Strike. However, all sources of AR apply to weapons.

6) Refresh potions also do an animation like Heal potions. Cure potions have always had their own unique animation. This means if someone drinks an unanimated potion it is probably a mana pot. If they drink a cure you will get the cure animation and sound. If they drink a heal or refresh you will see the healing stars animation, however, you should be able to see if their hits increase and work out which potion they drank. So with a little deductive reasoning you can always work out what potion your ally or opponent is drinking.

IMPORTANT TEMPORARY NOTE: Mind Blast is currently bugged and does 0 damage. This is fixed for the next reboot (Sunday 6th May 2012).

Okay I consider this more or less finished for now. If players have extra suggestions regarding details or strategies I'd be happy to add them to these posts or just post them below for everyone to see.

I hope this also helps people understand the changes and what they are doing with the new system and leads to more objective testing of the changes. Also I hope this at least convinces some of the doubters that the changes are not thoughtless and random, as you can plainly see a lot of logic and maths has gone into it. Now theory is theory and practice is practice is true, so, because I suck at PvP, you all need to go and do the practice now please, then get back to me later I will also be trying to PvP myself, although it may take some significant amount of time before I perform at a level where my own personal experience is valid.

From what I read that I was interested in (healing and wep swining) it sounds pretty good... cant wait to try it out. Nj.

Well done, don't have time to read it now, but I definitely will do so later. I suggest you move it to main page as u finish

Loki, even tho this is not the changes i was expecting i have to admit that you did A HUGE amount of work. Thank you and hope you will finish what you have in mind.

Dragon's Blade and Diamond katana cannot be poisoned? You made it totally crap. Nobody used it, but now this weapon will be complately useless. Even katana and broad sword of power are better than Dragon's Blade and Diamond Katana. Yes, superior diamond katana is too powerful with poison but not regular DRAGONS BLADE and regular DIAMOND KATANA! Normal DB and DK should be poisonable. You ruined those two weps.

No need to overreact, this is the first time anyone has ever expressed dissatisfaction with the damage output of those two weapons to me, I'll look into it. I'm not promising anything though, the damage output must be proportionate with the cost of the weapon, and I'm not sure on either of those things from the top of my head.

Sorry for overreacting but I like those weapons, I made tinkering specially to craft them and what I see, it's useless after the changes Have you ever seen anyone with that wep pvping arround? I only saw craditz was killing dragons with sdb 2 months ago. These weapons are magical, required a lot of effort to make them (bs, tink) and ingredients. What's the point in using them since it has almost same damage with power broadsword, katana and cannot be poisoned. I think that regular DB and DK should be poisonable, if not make it at least stronger because broad sword of power has 25 attack, can be poisoned and is a little faster than DB, while DB has 28 attack, is slower and can't be poisoned - summing up, it's better to use broadsword of power because they costs 1-2k(DB costs 30-40k), are poisonable and damage in practice is almost the same. Superior DK and Superior DK should be also stronger since they are not poisonable, because it makes them useless too. What's more, SDK and SDB is hard to make, because of it's high fail rate.

sdb is good for dragon hunting only! it sux in every other aspect imo..