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[WARNING, LONG POST AHEAD]


Hey yo!

I'm Jakko, EX admin of xuo(sphere) and I have been playing on this shard for a little while now, and I must say I like it.
Nothing is perfect, but this shard comes pretty close, good staff, dedicated admins and a playerbase that would make most other admins jealous.

The playerbase is so big, because this shard is a merge between two completely different servers, IN and XUO.
IN used to be a more RPish and "challenging" server the way I see it, while XUO was focussed on PvPing, and trying to get all players to join in in the PvP as quick and as much as possible.

Lately I have been reading the forums, and it seems to me that some XUO players have suggestions and complaints having to do with the changes involved in the merge. Many IN players reply to these issues by saying we are not a carebear server, and things shouldn't be too easy.
Some of the subjects leading to this typical discussion:

pits runes at dungeon entrances
fizzling taking mana
monster loots
accessability to rare weapons (xtreme dragons)
PK bounties
skillgain speed

To me it seems a few things are mixed up in this discussion.
Of course any UO server, either PvP or RP or both, should not make it very easy on the players. This would lead to boredom and a decrease of value that players assign to items and skills in the game, essentially making the entire game less important. (if everything is instantly achieved, what's the point?)

On the other hand, a server shouldn't make it too hard for the player either, too hard being that gameplay becomes less fun due to certain mechanics that block or slow down the player to the point the player feels like logging off.

The shard should be offering challenges instead of annoyances.

For example pits runes at dungeon entrances...

Does the lack of these pits runes make hunting more challenging?
Is being stuck for some time untill one of your friends logs on to gate you out very challenging?
No, it is annoying, and it blocks your gameplay.

Challenging would be if it is hard to kill certain monsters, hard to stay alive or hard to obtain a certain item. Challenging would be if certain encounters require strategy, teamwork and quick responses.

Carebear servers are not challenging. They let you kill an entire dungeon with one EV, and every monster will drop insane amounts of gold.

This server however, is currently in several ways beyond challenging, making certain aspects more of an annoyance, than a challenge.

Again, there is nothing wrong with things being hard to get, hard to achieve, or hard to undertake, but there IS something wrong with having gameplay mechanics that block the player and stop the players gameplay completely for some time.

Why?
Because there is always a better, more elegent way to make gameplay more challenging, than to make a player get stuck.

This also why I am in favor of pits runes at instance entrances.
If you think this makes hunting too easy, you should try to realize why hunting is easy. You will probably come to the conclusion that hunting is easy for reasons that have nothing to do with being or not being stuck and lost when you die.

They have to do with PvE requiring no equipment, strategy or teamwork whatsoever, only EV reagents (something Taran and Maka were made aware of, and are thinking about)

So in future discussions about how hard/easy certain mechanics are and should be, let's keep in mind that something doesn't have to be annoying to be challenging.
You couldn't be more right Jakko, I was just thinking of it but I never decided to post it.
By the way, I think the same thing happens by runes not being newbied, everyone will carry a bank rune only and keep all his important runes banked, and when you get killed it is just an annoyance to get to mark the rune again and re-do the macro.
excellent post. couldn't have said it better. I broight this issue up yself but it was locked before three people can give in input because it was "decided by staff" that it wasnt going to be implemented.

I agree that its very very annoying the way you get stuck when you die and I feel the same way, once I die, I just want to log off (when hunting outside a dungeon). I mean its one thing to make monsters loots hard and stuff... but once your DEAD and all you can do is walk around you dont want to spend 30 minutes running back to britian so by the time you get back your stuffs decayed and you no longer feel like playing.

I really hope they add those runes would make this servers hunting SO much better.
Jakko Wrote:For example pits runes at dungeon entrances...

Does the lack of these pits runes make hunting more challenging?
Is being stuck for some time untill one of your friends logs on to gate you out very challenging?
No, it is annoying, and it blocks your gameplay.

How does it block the gameplay? I mean seriously if your going to go hunting in a dungeon you take precautions... and u prepare... make sure you have regs, weapons, arrows, RUNES etc... if you die there are already res gates at all dungeons.

Adding pits runes takes alot of the risk out of the hunting.

Jakko Wrote:Carebear servers are not challenging. They let you kill an entire dungeon with one EV, and every monster will drop insane amounts of gold.

This server however, is currently in several ways beyond challenging, making certain aspects more of an annoyance, than a challenge.

Ill agree you with here... some things are stupidly hard and are just an annoyance. But hunting and the way we travel to/from dungeons isnt one of them Wink

Jakko Wrote:Again, there is nothing wrong with things being hard to get, hard to achieve, or hard to undertake, but there IS something wrong with having gameplay mechanics that block the player and stop the players gameplay completely for some time.

Like what? I mean seriously the mechanics INX has in place arent all that different to what the original UO was like... UO never had pit runes... so technically by having these we are ruining the game mechanics...

Jakko Wrote:Why?
Because there is always a better, more elegent way to make gameplay more challenging, than to make a player get stuck.

I just realised this post is still going on about pit runes... or is it just an example?

Jakko Wrote:This also why I am in favor of pits runes at instance entrances.
If you think this makes hunting too easy, you should try to realize why hunting is easy. You will probably come to the conclusion that hunting is easy for reasons that have nothing to do with being or not being stuck and lost when you die.

You dont get stuck WE HAVE A STUCK OPTION PEOPLE AND IT WORKS!!! Yes you are going to lose your body but oh well... its a risk you take when hunting in dungeons.

Jakko Wrote:They have to do with PvE requiring no equipment, strategy or teamwork whatsoever, only EV reagents (something Taran and Maka were made aware of, and are thinking about)

So in future discussions about how hard/easy certain mechanics are and should be let's keep in mind that something doesn't have to be annoying to be challenging.

See this is the thing... people want pit runes and strong ev's... ev's were made weaker... then people whinged.... by the sounds of things people are asking for we might as well just killplayers access to .kill Rolleyes
thats my big man! i completely agree with everything Jakko said in the post, he has said what most of the people have in mind in a somewhat mature way.I personally think pits runes at the entrance of a dungeon are a MUST, i mean whoever prefers to have a 20 minutes stroll back to a city then feel free to have it urself cause im not doing it, neither many players are thats why i got myself a lil house with some reagents inside and a escape rune in case i die at the only place i hunt ( its not like we can do this in every single place we hunt ..). So yeah definettly, pitsrune should be added cause not everyone can depend on their friends to make some money, i mean we are not s i s s i e s , we hunt down dragons no matter how tough they are and sure we do enjoy having some challenge while we hunting wich could result in dying and the possibility of losing our stuff , but not dealing aswell with making our long way back to a city and doing the whole thing again.In the other hand ive taken a look at sombrax's response and even tho id love to have newbied runes and would come handy while hunting , i think they are expendable .

im gonna make a poll regarding the pitsrune issue to see what the ppl thinks about it and their possible outcome

regards
Quote:How does it block the gameplay? I mean seriously if your going to go hunting in a dungeon you take precautions... and u prepare... make sure you have regs, weapons, arrows, RUNES etc... if you die there are already res gates at all dungeons.

Adding pits runes takes alot of the risk out of the hunting.

Ehmm well, res gates are COMPLETELY USELESS, unless you die at 10 tiles from it, when you die in a dungeon you cannot get back your things as it is crowded as hell, the best option is to stay as a ghost untill you get to the nearest town and get to pits.
SombraX Wrote:Ehmm well, res gates are COMPLETELY USELESS, unless you die at 10 tiles from it, when you die in a dungeon you cannot get back your things as it is crowded as hell, the best option is to stay as a ghost untill you get to the nearest town and get to pits.

Thats the risk of hunting... you risk losing your stuff... deal with it. Rolleyes

No offence as i really hate this XUO vs IN topics... but you guys basically had everything given to you... you might as well have started in occlo with all GM skills and 100000 in every resource.... :doubt:
Elcid, it's not just about pits runes, allthough that is an excellent example to illustrate a more profound difference between players used to IN and players used to XUO.

You say, OSI never had pits runes.
This is correct, allthough comparing this shard with OSI will not get us very far I think. OSI is different in so many ways, besides the scale, if we go on that tour we might as well question why we have a pits at all.

Try to let go of what OSI has, and just think about what hunting is like right now, and what aspects of it are challenging, and what aspects of it are annoying.

You talk about precautions that should be taken when going hunting, yet no precautions can help you if you get killed by monsters in deceit. You will be stuck untill someone helps you out.
To a lesser extend this is the case for dieing in for example destard as well, allthough walking back to brit without a mount is somewhat less annoying than being stuck on an island.

It doesn't really matter though, I am not trying to make this thread about pits runes at dungeons, I am just saying that what is challenging and hard, does not have to be annoying.
Gameplay can be fun, even though it is challenging.

Being stuck on Deceit island is not fun.
Just like it's not fun for a PK to be stuck in the pits, when a ganking crew is waiting for them in Ocllo.
These situations should be prevented somehow, players should be able to continue playing, and enjoying the game, even if they lose/die/fail.
Elcid Wrote:Thats the risk of hunting... you risk losing your stuff... deal with it. Rolleyes

No offence as i really hate this XUO vs IN topics... but you guys basically had everything given to you... you might as well have started in occlo with all GM skills and 100000 in every resource.... :doubt:

This is not a XUO vs IN, you might take it as if it was one of them, but we are trying to make the server a better one. I know that you like to have a risk while hunting, trust me, i like to have a risk while hunting too but there should be a limit, everytime I die in a dungeon I don't wanna lose 30 minutes you know, I would prefer to get a pits rune and not being able to loot my corpse rather than losing 30 minutes walking to the nearest town and still not have a chance at getting my things back.

We had not everything given, we just don't like to wait, we can stand and even like things being hard, as jakko said, one thing is challenging and another thing is annoyance
Damn is everyone that lazy? you really need a pit rune? We should have it where only 2 towns would get a pit rune one for the pks and one for the blues. Man I miss the old days
Elcid Wrote:Thats the risk of hunting... you risk losing your stuff... deal with it. Rolleyes

That's the thing, with pits runes players would still lose their stuff when they die. The only thing they would not lose is a chunk of gameplay that is spend waiting on a friend to gate them out. It could be challenging, yet not annoying.
Christina Thorn Wrote:Damn is everyone that lazy? you really need a pit rune? We should have it where only 2 towns would get a pit rune one for the pks and one for the blues. Man I miss the old days

I will never comprehend what do you see in walking 30 minutes to a town and losing them while you could be doing anything useful.
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